Your Input Wanted on Handling Future Off-Topic Posts

[mike_israel]

Hi All,

Sometimes it is tough moderating these forums. No matter what you do, someone is not happy.

Recently there were some rather unpleasant postings here on the forums. Yes, there was some factual information but a lot of it degenerated into rather nasty personal assaults.

The first time this happened I deleted the thread. My mail box quickly filled up with people angry that I was censoring information that is important and of interest to list members, even if some of it was quite ugly. I then stated that I would henceforth leave things largely unmoderated and trust that everyone wold act like grown-ups and keep the debates over who has a bigger one off-line. Recently I have been getting lots of messages about why I allow this to continue.

I know that many sites, like the much larger Jaguar forms, tolerate nothing being posted along the line of personal attacks, business disputes, etc. Here was a post from that moderator when someone did so in what ,compared to recent events, would have be considered gentlemanly manner.

Chris, having knowingly and somewhat flagrantly broken two cardinal
rules at once, has forfeited his priviledges here until he
convinces me he won't be doing anything remotely like this again.

I know this is redundant for most of us but I might as well remind
everyone that setting out to badmouth someone and/or posting off-
list correspondence in public are both serious issues which I will
not turn a blind eye to. - Pete XJ Admin"

I am not going to ask for commentary but will instead post a poll asking for your voice on how the members of this list would like to see future incidents handled. For those who receive messages by email you will need to log into the amphicar770.com site to participate in the poll.

 

[BuckeyeFloater]

Your last line stated that you weren't asking for comments but...

As a new member here the comments in these types of threads gives some insight to the people posting.
Having never met anyone in person, I would hope that they realize that through these forums, are how I am going to form some of my opinions of my fellow members. At least until I get to meet them in person.

I feel these forums are provided to the members as a service and ultimately the decision on how to handle these situations will be up to the moderator.

Having said that, my opinion is to let the posts play out, and let the chips fall where they may.

Randy

 

[Larry DePasquale]

Randy, How close are you to Dayton Ohio? I am actually in Xenia.
Larry D
White 66




________________________________
From: BuckeyeFloater <>
To: larrydepasquale@yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:22:08 PM
Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20227] Re: Your Input Wanted on Handling Future Off-Topic Posts


Your last line stated that you weren't asking for comments but...

As a new member here the comments in these types of threads gives some insight to the people posting.
Having never met anyone in person, I would hope that they realize that through these forums, are how I am going to form some of my opinions of my fellow members. At least until I get to meet them in person.

I feel these forums are provided to the members as a service and ultimately the decision on how to handle these situations will be up to the moderator.

Having said that, my opinion is to let the posts play out, and let the chips fall where they may.

Randy

 

[Larry DePasquale]

Mike, Just my two cents, I don't want to hear a bunch of bickering.* Personal conflicts should involve only those individuals that have an issue.* Let the individuals work*their problems out in private, *and let the rest of us have fun working out the glitches in our Amphis. With that said, you are doing a tremendous job here, Thanks for all you do.
Larry
White 66*




________________________________
From: mike_israel <>
To: larrydepasquale@yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 4:12:43 PM
Subject: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20227] Your Input Wanted on Handling Future Off-Topic Posts


Hi All,

Sometimes it is tough moderating these forums. No matter what you do, someone is not happy.

Recently there were some rather unpleasant postings here on the forums. Yes, there was some factual information but a lot of it degenerated into rather nasty personal assaults.

The first time this happened I deleted the thread. My mail box quickly filled up with people angry that I was censoring information that is important and of interest to list members, even if some of it was quite ugly. I then stated that I would henceforth leave things largely unmoderated and trust that everyone wold act like grown-ups and keep the debates over who has a bigger one off-line.

I know that many sites, like the much larger Jaguar forms, tolerate nothing being posted along the line of personal attacks, business disputes, etc. Here was a post from that moderator when someone did so in what ,compared to recent events, would have be considered gentlemanly manner.

Chris, having knowingly and somewhat flagrantly broken two cardinal
rules at once, has forfeited his priviledges here until he
convinces me he won't be doing anything remotely like this again.

I know this is redundant for most of us but I might as well remind
everyone that setting out to badmouth someone and/or posting off-
list correspondence in public are both serious issues which I will
not turn a blind eye to. - Pete XJ Admin"

I am not going to ask for commentary but will instead post a poll asking for your voice on how the members of this list would like to see future incidents handled. For those who receive messages by email you will need to log into the amphicar770.com site to participate in the poll.

 

[CapnJohn]

Mike -
You provide a professinal location for us to converse. It also is really the only unbiased venue to vocalize problems or concers which are as important as the rest of the banter. The newsletter or the website are certainly not the place. Sadly a very small number choose not to refrain from personal attacks in private or public. In spite of this lack of self control by spewing post after post, some can only be controlled by eliminating them from adult conversations until they can learn to play nicely. I would not censor them as they will no doubt provide enough material that everyone can and has seen who they really are and won't have a problem when you ban them. To delete posts, only hides the real culpret and will not give anyone any insight to the justification for your decision.

Basically, You won't make everyone happy and you shouldn't even try. I just believe that you would be better off to control them and not censor them.

Thanks again for all your work and efforts!

 

[Ed Price]

_____

From: mike_israel [mailto:]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:13 PM
To: edprice@cox.net
Subject: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20227] Your Input Wanted on Handling
Future Off-Topic Posts


Hi All,

Sometimes it is tough moderating these forums. No matter what you do,
someone is not happy.



Lists make for a strange experience in civics. An admin has establishes a
site to serve a community, that service limited only by the sensibility of
the admin. Sooner or later, but always, someone in that community violates
the admin's sense of propriety.

At this point, the admin usually censors or bans the violator. And the
community is harshly reminded that a list is not a democracy; it is
autocratically controlled by the admin. Next comes public agonizing about
the dangers of censorship and the harm it does to the once-snug community.

It always ends with some hurt feelings; the admin wonders if it's all worth
the hassle; the violator feels unjustly abused; and the members run the
gamut from disgust of censorship to sadness that complacency has been upset.

Having run a list in the past, I can only say that the admin needs to have a
thick skin and a good compass; someone will always be unhappy. I believe in
censorship, but only to the extent of not tolerating profanity, advertising,
far off-topic content, personal attacks, obviously malicious content and
anonymity. Beyond that, I feel that list members should have the ability to
discuss business problems, equipment reliability, related social
organizations and legal and regulatory issues.

One important fact for list members to remember is that nobody forces them
to read a post that might upset them. If a particular thread disinterests or
annoys you, if you don't want to see anything other than happy-talk, you
should simply delete it based on its header. If some list members feel so
strongly about a particular subject that they carry it for quite a while,
you should simply exercise your Delete key rather than call for censoring of
your fellow list members. Censorship has a funny way of eventually
suppressing something that you care strongly about, so anyone should be very
hesitant about calling for censorship.


Ed Price
El Cajon, CA USA
61 Rust Guppy

 

[BrianK]

There is value in these posts. It lets us get to know people, for better or worse.

Based on what I have read recently, I know of at least two people who I will vote against having any role on the IAOC board.

 

[Ed Price]

_____

From: BrianK [mailto:]
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 9:17 AM
To: edprice@cox.net
Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20227] Re: Your Input Wanted on
Handling Future Off-Topic Posts


There is value in these posts. It lets us get to know people, for better or
worse.

Based on what I have read recently, I know of at least two people who I will
vote against having any role on the IAOC board.



BrianK:

Just a reminder that, in order to vote for or against any of the volunteer
IAOC Board members, you must first be a member of the IAOC.

Perhaps you are confusing this free Amphicar Lovers Digest with the
International Amphicar Owners Association. You can join the IAOC easily at:

http://www.amphicar.com

By joining the IAOC, you can help provide a more satisfying amphibious
experience for all Amphi owners!



Ed Price
IAOC Membership Registrar
El Cajon, CA USA
61 Rust Guppy

 

[Larry DePasquale]

Ed, Good answer.
Larry
White 66 in Ohio



________________________________
From: Ed Price <>
To: larrydepasquale@yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2008 7:54:42 AM
Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20227] Your Input Wanted on Handling Future Off-Topic Posts


_____

From: mike_israel [mailto:]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:13 PM
To: edprice@cox.net
Subject: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20227] Your Input Wanted on Handling
Future Off-Topic Posts


Hi All,

Sometimes it is tough moderating these forums. No matter what you do,
someone is not happy.



Lists make for a strange experience in civics. An admin has establishes a
site to serve a community, that service limited only by the sensibility of
the admin. Sooner or later, but always, someone in that community violates
the admin's sense of propriety.

At this point, the admin usually censors or bans the violator. And the
community is harshly reminded that a list is not a democracy; it is
autocratically controlled by the admin. Next comes public agonizing about
the dangers of censorship and the harm it does to the once-snug community.

It always ends with some hurt feelings; the admin wonders if it's all worth
the hassle; the violator feels unjustly abused; and the members run the
gamut from disgust of censorship to sadness that complacency has been upset.

Having run a list in the past, I can only say that the admin needs to have a
thick skin and a good compass; someone will always be unhappy. I believe in
censorship, but only to the extent of not tolerating profanity, advertising,
far off-topic content, personal attacks, obviously malicious content and
anonymity. Beyond that, I feel that list members should have the ability to
discuss business problems, equipment reliability, related social
organizations and legal and regulatory issues.

One important fact for list members to remember is that nobody forces them
to read a post that might upset them. If a particular thread disinterests or
annoys you, if you don't want to see anything other than happy-talk, you
should simply delete it based on its header. If some list members feel so
strongly about a particular subject that they carry it for quite a while,
you should simply exercise your Delete key rather than call for censoring of
your fellow list members. Censorship has a funny way of eventually
suppressing something that you care strongly about, so anyone should be very
hesitant about calling for censorship.


Ed Price
El Cajon, CA USA
61 Rust Guppy