Water/land tranny seal

[BrianF]

BrianF
New Member
Today at 9:13 AM

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Hi
Servicing and fixing everything on car. Fluid service check. Brakes check. Chrome headlight trim check. Doors repaired and painted check. Gas sender float repaired check. New wood floors and trunk pieces in progress. And lots of cleaning and painting along the way. Every three or 4 years I completely remove interior and clean and inspect everything. I have lots of gear oil in the bilge and think it flows from the water tranny, through the land tranny, and out through the speedo connection. It's a chore to clean but worse than that is the smell. Its like the car has BO. I actually get a headache when the roof is up.
So I think its time to swap out the seal because when I check the water tranny level it is always low and needs topping off. I need a push to GO FOR IT!!! and change that seal. I have had the water tranny cover off before and swapped out the intermediate gears and needle bearings and was ok with all that. What I'm not cool with is setting up the shift shaft position when finishing up. It took me 8 hours and through trial and error I got it. Very confusing and frustrating. I am not sure what I did but think I just moved things around while changing parts and got the thing jammed up.
So Im looking for help, tips, encouragement, etc.
Thanks in advance.
Brian

 

[Mark Richardson]

Hi Brian,
You have been very busy and have already taken on several significant jobs restoring your car this spring.
I have been doing some repairs as well, but the most involved is a full 4 wheel brake job down to the cylinders & seals and bearings. Mine is still all 4 wheels in the air, so am doing some cosmetic work and painting underneath. Makes getting to grease zerks easier too.

I think the migration of gear oil is one of the things we all fear because of what the job to fix entails. Pulling the engine & tranny and tearing it down to get to the seal is a very big job. I pulled my engine several times to replace the chattering clutch, and have replaced the transmission as well, so am well aware of how much work it is. Not sure if seal can be replaced inside the car or not, but sitting in the back seat working on the tranny is not a comfortable place to be after about 2 minutes.
I guess some of the decision to undertake the job is that it is almost all labor and not too much cost in parts. Another is the weather, as it is not too hot & humid yet, unless you have heat & air in your shop.
One problem I have is that I find other things that need repair and start down a rat hole of project creep, fixing other things along the way. This is happening to me now after I removed my rear seat to check my gear oil level. It was a little low, but while there I saw that my water prop light switch (10-32-32) was removed a long time ago probably because it was causing some forgotten issue. Anyway, I found it and have started to try to get it working again, but am a little curious about the wiring of it. It didn't help that I took it apart, but that is another story.

Do you by chance have a picture of the wiring of yours installed you can post for me to look at? Sounds like your rear seat is already out, so might be an easy thing. Anyway, this will help me out if you can and I appreciate it greatly.

If you dive into pulling the tranny out and changing that seal, keep us posted on progress and if you need any advice or encouragement. Post pictures, cause we all like to look at them! Have fun.

Good luck!

Mark

 

[BrianF]

Hi Mark
Im asking about the seal between water and land tranny. My understanding is to disconnect shift shaft linkage, pull water tranny cover and swap out seal. My concern is hooking up the shift shaft linkage afterwards because I had a struggle last time I did it. I don't think pulling engine or tranny is necessary. So if you or anyone has a "order of operations", or process, or secret on removing and replacing the shift shafts could you let me know. Maybe I'm overthinking this job but don't want to get stuck again. One must learn from the mistake of others because we won't live long enough to make all the mistakes ourselfs.
As for help with your lights, my prop and reverse lights are not installed. So I'm no help on the lights.

 

[Mark Richardson]

Brian,
Dave the wave Derer is the resident tranny expert. He has a Facebook page called gators amphicar where he may be able to help.
Gord has probably done the job too, so he may also be able to offer words of wisdom. Also, contact someone at Gordon's and see if they can help.
Between them and anyone else who reads this you should be able to get some guidance going in.

Not looking for the light picture, but the switch under the rear seat that attaches to the water trans shift rod that turns the light on. Looks like this. Wondering where the ground wire attaches.

View attachment 2649

 

[Mark Richardson]

 

[SNOWBIRD]

Mark,,,,wires 2 blues on outside brown ground in middle.

Brian... I would not do seal change in car.. #1 its a b%%^&&&* to get the main gear (one behind the 15/16 nut)off sometimes

 

[BrianF]

Hi Gord
Thought I had a clue on seal repair in the car but guess I was wrong. Didn't realize how deep I had to go. As mentioned I took the water cover off and changed the intermediate gear, so I thought the seal would be an easy replacement. Are you saying its better to pull the engine and tranny or just the tranny. It now sounds Like a "since ya job" Since ya doing this you might as well do that too. Any idea who or where I could get the seal done in the Boston area? Or how do I arrange to have you do it. I have mechanical skills and limits and Im thinking this seal repair/since ya job is beyond me. Maybe we can talk over the phone at some point if you don't mind.
Thanks
Brian

 

[BrianF]

Hi Mark
I meant my Light switches are not installed, they are in a box somewhere. I have no reverse lights or switch hooked up. I used the reverse light hole on the car body for LED brake lights. Simply wired them up to the existing brake lights, so I have original brake lights and LED's above them, works great, very bright and as far as I'm concerned more important than reverse lights.
Prop shaft lights, we don't need no stinking prop lights. I have no switch for that either.
So i'm not much help on switch placement. Sorry.
Brian

 

[Mark Richardson]

Thanks Gord,
Is that a drill bit in the stud hole at six o'clock center bottom in the picture above?

Good luck on the seal replacement Brian!

 

[SNOWBIRD]

Yes... in hole to line up gasket, as a long Allen bolt goes threw there when cover is on.
Brian get ahold of Jerry O beara in Taunton , he may be able to help you
50/50 pull just trany = or pull all and do a real clean up under area.
Don't know when they will open the border up and let me in States again ? way things are going there may be no Celina swim in this year?

 

[BrianF]

Hi Gord
Thanks for the info, will give Gerry a buzz and see who he can suggest in this area. Or its a hillbilly fix for now, rag or tray under tranny to catch gear oil. Oh don't worry about the tray sliding around, I will get one of those magnetic ones haha. Im thinking at this point it is to late in the season to pull everything out and repair. I think the Amphicar is the best social distancing vehicle out there and don't want it out of commission for the season. Out of the garage into the lake, cruse the lake, out of the lake back in the garage. No parking lots, docks, transferring gear from vehicles or touching anything.
Thanks again
Brian

 

[mschlem]

Brian,
I changed the migration seal several years ago while in the car. With the exception of removing the gear, you were basically there with your previous work....so you know what you’re in for.
Job went well and was an afternoon project. I had just one problem, and that was getting the nut off the shaft that was holding the gear on. Couldn’t break it loose because the whole trans/motor wanted to turn. An impact wrench was the answer and quickly popped it off. The tap-tap-tap of the impact was the key.
With that said...Gord has a good point. It would be much easier to work on outside of the car. Just wanted to let you know my experience.
One other point. 20+ years ago I was using Amsoil in the transmission (and engine and grease). I felt like it was too “slippery” for the transmission and still wanted to migrate - even with a fresh seal. I switched to conventional oil for the transmission maybe 15 years ago and have had no problems. If by chance you’re using Amsoil and having a minor migration, might be worth a try.

Good luck,
Marc.

 

[BrianF]

Hi Marc
Thanks for the encouraging words. I understand engine/tranny out for the best overall job, thanks Gord, But I know me, and it would get to involved and take to long. Been there done that a few times on other cars. Maybe early in the off season next year. So for now I'm just concentrating on the seal replacement, in the car. Hey "what could possibly go wrong" haha. Shift shafts disconnect, cover off, intermediate gears out, nut off with impact gun, and pull seal, easy right. Then say a few prayers and put it all back together.
Yes I am using Amsoil and I hear what your saying about it slipping through the seals. I am Bmw motorcycle guy for the last 44 years and we never use a full synthetic on the older bikes because it weeps. What Dino oil do you use? I might end up not using Amsoil if it keeps weeping after seal change.
So back to the original question, do you have any tips on removing /replacing shift shafts. I had a difficult time getting them lined up last time I was in there and i don't want to get stuck again. Scott from Gordens said to put it in first gear and the pawls will line up for better reassembly. Any other tips?
Thanks again
Brian

 

[SNOWBIRD]

going back to my pic, are you asking about the hockey stick at bottom of pic sticking up?... Its hard to keep in place even when trany is vertical on bench.. Nothing holds it in place, till outer housing is on.
and again.. I have had to even use HEAT to get the main gear behind the nut off.(threw gear away after) some have 2 bolt holes for removal others do not.

 

[BrianF]

Hi Gord
Now I'm scared again!!! I have been around machines for a long time and live by the saying "if it can go wrong it will go wrong". You are prepared for solving those problems and I am not. So I think I will go in a different direction. To many "What if's" to worry about. I know I can do this job but I'm not sure what to do if I get in there and break something and need parts etc. Or hit a dead end with the nut and have to put it all back together with no progress.
So #1 is thanks guys on the info. #2 will put a adsorbing mat or tray under tranny and check it often along with topping off water tranny. #3 change to Dino gear oil in the hope that the oil seep will slow down. #4 Plan on engine tranny out and rub lots of cash on it this fall. You guys are the best!!!
Thanks
Brian

 

[jfriese]

Between changing center seals and those intermediate gear retaining clips, I have been into the water tranny several times. I always did it in the car and wouldn't consider anything else. Just dealing with the rear axles and brakes is more pain than cleaning up spilled gear oil. One hint: when you buy a replacement gasket soak it in hot water for a minute or two. These large gaskets can shrink over time and if you try to force them on they can damage the small mid section of the gasket and then your back to square one. When properly sized they will go on easily and look right.

John Friese
67 White
67 Red

 

[Wyofloater]

Mid stream in the change of the seal W to L. Take front seat out or at least remove one back and slide it far forward. Found goop in lower and upper compartments. Gear showed pitting and seal face area was also pitted. Original seat was crumbling so adding Bardahl would not have repaired the leak.

 

[Wyofloater]

All repaired and back together. Filled water transmission and watching for leaks. Looks promising.

 

[BrianF]

Hi
It only took me a few years but Tranny seal is done. Between covid and a move after 35 years I postponed major work on car until now.
I keep car in Maine so towed it home to my work shop in Quincy. Stripped interior, disconnected everything and pulled motor myself in three days. Had a helper for the day and changed clutch, tranny seal, input shaft seal, driveshaft tranny seals, and a few other seals and gaskets. Cleaned bilge and got everything ready for engine install. Engine went back in easy with new mounts, complete muffler with sport pipe, and an optima battery. Changed all fluids, greased everything and packed bearings. Also shortened e-brake cables and got e-brake to work after 15 years, will be nice to have an e-brake. Every three or four years I do a Deep Tune Up, or major repair. This year was the engine bay. Want to thank everyone for info, advice, and encouraging words. I had a great time working on my car and feel very proud of the work I did.
You guys are the best
Brian

 

[RalphF]

BrianF
New Member
Today at 9:13 AM

• Add bookmark
• #1

Hi
Servicing and fixing everything on car. Fluid service check. Brakes check. Chrome headlight trim check. Doors repaired and painted check. Gas sender float repaired check. New wood floors and trunk pieces in progress. And lots of cleaning and painting along the way. Every three or 4 years I completely remove interior and clean and inspect everything. I have lots of gear oil in the bilge and think it flows from the water tranny, through the land tranny, and out through the speedo connection. It's a chore to clean but worse than that is the smell. Its like the car has BO. I actually get a headache when the roof is up.
So I think its time to swap out the seal because when I check the water tranny level it is always low and needs topping off. I need a push to GO FOR IT!!! and change that seal. I have had the water tranny cover off before and swapped out the intermediate gears and needle bearings and was ok with all that. What I'm not cool with is setting up the shift shaft position when finishing up. It took me 8 hours and through trial and error I got it. Very confusing and frustrating. I am not sure what I did but think I just moved things around while changing parts and got the thing jammed up.
So Im looking for help, tips, encouragement, etc.
Thanks in advance.
Brian

That shift shaft is horrible to get in place. I had to open the water transmission three times to repair it after Port Clinton. I thought it was the worst chore in the world. Now to me it is a tossup between that and removing the cylinder head, as I recently found out.

I have the same smell coming from the bilge I think. My garage in in the basement and it stinks up the entire house! Thank goodness my wife hasn't figured out what the smell is. I don't want the move the car outside. It already was from May 2020 to 2022. I wonder If we dare pressure wash the rear area with the engine and tranny still in. Maybe that will get rid of the stink. That and purple power....