Transmission gear oil leakage

L

laserfixr@aol.com

Guest
I too have leakage between my water and land transmissions. About a pint of gear oil migrates from the water to the land transmission about every 500 miles. I have purchased the seal but have not installed it yet. Are there any tips for installing this seal? Thanks.
Best Regards,

Steve Sell
West Palm Beach, Florida
'66 White
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G

Greg

Guest
Anyone have experience changing the seal between water
and land transmission or have problems with gear oil
leaking from water transmission? Water trans continues
to be bone dry after a few days. I assume it is the
seal between the two transmissions but it doesn't
appear it is all going into the land transmission. I
have some oil on floor. Anyone have this issue before?
I understand to change the seal between the two it is
fairly easy and you just need to remove the front half
of water trans. Appreciate any tips of instructions.
Greg Zinkosky (Michigan)

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D

David Chapman

Guest
Greg, changing that seal can either be a snap or a world of pain involving Dremel tools and new gears. As you need to get the seal from him (don't use a generic one) I'd say speak to Hugh, you also want to know the transmission serial numbers as I think there were differences early to late.
Sometimes when the seal fails the oil goes from land to water box, sometimes it goes the other way (!) and sometimes it just seems to vanish.
 
G

Greg

Guest
David, thanks for the information. For years, I have
the land oil going to water, but it didn't seem to be
an issue. Once the water trans became over full,
everything stabalized and the land would stay at the
correct lever. All of a sudden, I've got this new
situation where land is slightly over full but rest is
dissappearing. I spoke to Hugh at Celina and ordered
the seal, but he did not say anything about early or
late trans differences. I'm trying to get other
opinions from laymen like myself who have tackled the
job. When you say it can be easy or difficult (new
gears), is that because of the early and late trans
differences or if you make a mistake in dismanteling?
Greg

--- David Chapman <david@manbus.com> wrote:

> Greg, changing that seal can either be a snap or a
> world of pain involving Dremel tools and new gears.
> As you need to get the seal from him (don't use a
> generic one) I'd say speak to Hugh, you also want to
> know the transmission serial numbers as I think
> there were differences early to late.
>
> Sometimes when the seal fails the oil goes from land
> to water box, sometimes it goes the other way (!)
> and sometimes it just seems to vanish.
>
> David C


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D

David Chapman

Guest
Greg,

First the seal must be in a metal not rubber housing as it gets very hot in there. You have to removea gear on the end of the mainshaft to replace the seal. There are at least 3 different versions of that gear. The splined version was I think used on early transmissions and can be removed with a simple puller. The ones I've taken apart have been later transmissions (over number about 2000) and these have a keyed interference fit. I'vevery rarely been able to remove one of these in one piece, it almost seems to weld itselfon, pullers just break so I tend to cut almost all the way to the shaft with a Dremel and split the last bit with a chisel. You really reallyneed to be careful not to damage themainshaft. Of course you then needa new gear ! It's possible but very difficult to do this if the transmission is still in the car.

David C
 
G

gtpeterp

Guest
I had been considering trying to rebuild my transmission myself, but
at this point I have resigned myself to sending it off to Dave (The
Wave) to have him look at it. As much as I would like to try it, I'm
afraid there are too many expensive things I can break. :(

Peter

--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, "David Chapman" <david@...> wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
> First the seal must be in a metal not rubber housing as it gets very
hot in there. You have to remove a gear on the end of the mainshaft to
replace the seal. There are at least 3 different versions of that
gear. The splined version was I think used on early transmissions and
can be removed with a simple puller. The ones I've taken apart have
been later transmissions (over number about 2000) and these have a
keyed interference fit. I've very rarely been able to remove one of
these in one piece, it almost seems to weld itself on, pullers just
break so I tend to cut almost all the way to the shaft with a Dremel
and split the last bit with a chisel. You really really need to be
careful not to damage the mainshaft. Of course you then need a new
gear ! It's possible but very difficult to do this if the
transmission is still in the car.
>
> David C
>
 
G

Greg

Guest
David,
Hopefully I'm lucky and have an early one. Top of the
water trans has "1209 062". Is that the right place to
look? Does this mean mine is #1209?
Greg

--- David Chapman <david@manbus.com> wrote:

> Greg,
>
> First the seal must be in a metal not rubber housing
> as it gets very hot in there. You have to remove a
> gear on the end of the mainshaft to replace the
> seal. There are at least 3 different versions of
> that gear. The splined version was I think used on
> early transmissions and can be removed with a simple
> puller. The ones I've taken apart have been later
> transmissions (over number about 2000) and these
> have a keyed interference fit. I've very rarely been
> able to remove one of these in one piece, it almost
> seems to weld itself on, pullers just break so I
> tend to cut almost all the way to the shaft with a
> Dremel and split the last bit with a chisel. You
> really really need to be careful not to damage the
> mainshaft. Of course you then need a new gear !
> It's possible but very difficult to do this if the
> transmission is still in the car.
>
> David C
>


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D

David Chapman

Guest
Hopefully I'm lucky and have an early one.

Top of the water trans has "1209 062". Is that the right place to\

Yes and the 062 is the year but I'm not sure exactly when they changed. Might be worth having a chat to Gord Souter or Dave Wave, both have taken these transmissions apart many more times than me.

David C
 
L

laserfixr@aol.com

Guest
From the book:


EARLY DRIVE GEAR-For transmissions up to serial no. 2225. Gear has splines to slide on early drive shaft 2-16-01.

LATE DRIVE GEAR-For transmissions after serial no. 2226. Gear has keyway slot.

Best Regards,

Steve Sell
West Palm Beach, Florida
'66 White
 
G

gtpeterp

Guest
Weird. Mine is 459 M61. Maybe theres another number im not seeing
stamped in there somewhere...

Peter

--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, Greg <G_Zink_us@...> wrote:
>
> David,
> Hopefully I'm lucky and have an early one. Top of the
> water trans has "1209 062". Is that the right place to
> look? Does this mean mine is #1209?
> Greg
>
> --- David Chapman <david@...> wrote:
>
> > Greg,
> >
> > First the seal must be in a metal not rubber housing
> > as it gets very hot in there. You have to remove a
> > gear on the end of the mainshaft to replace the
> > seal. There are at least 3 different versions of
> > that gear. The splined version was I think used on
> > early transmissions and can be removed with a simple
> > puller. The ones I've taken apart have been later
> > transmissions (over number about 2000) and these
> > have a keyed interference fit. I've very rarely been
> > able to remove one of these in one piece, it almost
> > seems to weld itself on, pullers just break so I
> > tend to cut almost all the way to the shaft with a
> > Dremel and split the last bit with a chisel. You
> > really really need to be careful not to damage the
> > mainshaft. Of course you then need a new gear !
> > It's possible but very difficult to do this if the
> > transmission is still in the car.
> >
> > David C
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
 
R

rlgreen_55

Guest
Below is what was in the newsletter regarding this seal from Marc our
past president. I have also installed these several times and the
only thing I would add is don't set the seal to deep (flush) or it
won't seal to the gear. Also inspect you gear surface the seal rides
on to make sure it isn't chewed up to the point the new seal won't
work. I have had to replace the drive gear due to surface damage when
installing a new seal.

Ron Green

The seal (PN# 2-16-06) is not that difficult to replace, and the
transmission does not need to come out of the car. While I'm no
expert, I've done the job twice now and can share what little bit I
know.

The seal is reached by going in through the water transmission.
Start by putting the top down and taking the rear seat out. Then
either take the front seat out, or at least the seat backs off, just
to give yourself a little more room to work. I just took the two
front seat backs off and put a towel over the seat bottom while I
worked. This worked well.

Drain the oil out of both transmissions, then unhook all the
shifting linkages and such. The cover of the water transmission is
held on by a over a dozen nuts and one allen screw near the four
speed shifting rod. After removing them, the cover can come off. It
will take some gentle tapping on the case lugs, but resist the urge
to pry it off so that you don't damage the sealing surface.

Before the cover comes completely off the studs, take a good
look at the shaft that the four speed shifter was connected to. This
shaft will fall out, and you'll need to make sure it goes back the
same way it came out or you won't be able to shift!

You'll see a double selector fork that needs to be removed.
Directly above the shaft used to shift the water transmission is a
large hex head plug. It holds the selector fork in place. Remove it
being careful not to loose a spring and ball that are underneath.

A small double gear will slide off, and you'll then see the
drive gear held on by a large nut. Remove the nut. I found that an
impact wrench was just the trick. The "bam-bam-bam" of the impact
tool loosened it while a socket and breaker bar wouldn't. With the
bar, the transmission and engine would just turn over rather than
allow the nut to loosen.

To remove the gear, you'll need a gear puller. A small, two jaw
puller with a thin "hook" seems to be about the best bet. After
removal, inspect the shoulder on the gear. The seal "seals" against
this. Any pits or scaring will be a sure problem.

Once the gear is removed, the seal is right there, ready to be
replaced! Nothing special about going back together....just backwards
of what you've done. After reassembly, try shifting both
transmissions before adding oil. I couldn't shift the land
transmission and I realized that I messed up the shaft I mentioned
earlier. I had to go back in and fix it! Another suggestion is to
have a spare seal ready. While driving the seal into it's hole, I
damaged it and luckily had a second one! You'll also need gasket
number 2-15-18.
The Amphicar Maintenance manual has some information on taking
the
transmission apart starting on page 2/7. It's worth a look, too.

Good
luck...Marc.


--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, Greg <G_Zink_us@...> wrote:
>
> Anyone have experience changing the seal between water
> and land transmission or have problems with gear oil
> leaking from water transmission? Water trans continues
> to be bone dry after a few days. I assume it is the
> seal between the two transmissions but it doesn't
> appear it is all going into the land transmission. I
> have some oil on floor. Anyone have this issue before?
> I understand to change the seal between the two it is
> fairly easy and you just need to remove the front half
> of water trans. Appreciate any tips of instructions.
> Greg Zinkosky (Michigan)
>
> __________________________________________________
>
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
 

okey0

Member
A small double gear will slide off, and you'll then see the
drive gear held on by a large nut. Remove the nut. I found that an
impact wrench was just the trick. The "bam-bam-bam" of the impact
tool loosened it while a socket and breaker bar wouldn't. With the
bar, the transmission and engine would just turn over rather than
allow the nut to loosen.>

I'm trying to get to the seal between the water and land trannys. Is the nut mentioned above (and seen below) "lefty loosey" or is this a "righty loosey"? i'd swear I read somewhere that it loosens clockwise but I cant find that now.
trans nut.jpg e,
 

Jon March

Member
Dave the wave Derer oughta know - probably Gord Souter, and no doubt a few others. I dont blame you for wanting to know before doing it!
 

Jon March

Member
i saw this in Marcs detailed post - "
Remove the nut. I found that an
impact wrench was just the trick. The "bam-bam-bam" of the impact
tool loosened it while a socket and breaker bar wouldn't. With the
bar, the transmission and engine would just turn over rather than
allow the nut to loosen." - ....or is the shaft really free-spinning so that even the instantaneous force of an air impact tool would still spin the shaft. Me, id just clamp a vicegrip on the shaft and lay a 2x4 for the handle to hit against to stop the shaft - but not being there, i dong know if theres room... or if a vicegrip will open wide enough.....
 

okey0

Member
I got the nut off by sliding the old clutch back on the shaft, then clamping a vice grip to the flange that sticks out a little bit from the clutch. to get the gear off, i had to do a little grinding on a puller that i got for $6 at o'reilly auto parts. the 1/8" thick arms of the puller wouldn't fit behind the gear, so i dremelled a taper on them and off it came, ez pz. even though the shaft has a key way, there was no key in place. just splines and the nut anchoring it in place. NOW---what direction does the seal go...pic shows the way the old one came out.

puller mod.JPGseal_iOS.jpg
 

okey0

Member
what are the torque specs on the trans case cover? I guessed 18 ft lbs since its aluminum. I don't see the specs in the manual. the differential cover is 18 I think, is it the same for the front piece?
 

SNOWBIRD

Amphicar Expert
PIC IS CORRECT.. SEE THE SPRING SIDE WHEN INSTALLLED KEEP WATER OIL OUT OF TRANY OIL.
I HAVE A BUILT IN TORQUE SETTING IN MY ARM, AFTER 50 YEARS OF TIGHTENING BOLTS YOU KNOW WHEN TO STOP. 12-20 SHOULD BE FINE.
 

okey0

Member
HA HA, your "torque wrench" may be pretty accurate, but i have no spare cases to sacrifice in case i am wrong!
 
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