Good afternoon Amphicar enthusiasts,
I have some new news and information about this ongoing thread of tires and tubes.
First of all, as many of you know, about twelve years ago, I was fortunate enough to locate and purchase a brand new unsold Amphicar from a former dealer. This car had 468 miles on it, which was the distance from the distribution rail, where three salesmen had been sent to drive the three Amphicars, back to the dealership in Vermont. The now retired dealer told me that the first car sold immediately in 1962, and that the second car took almost five years to sell. He placed this third car away in a storage barn, as there was very little interest in this car back then. As it had been stored poorly, it did require a respray and a new top, but it is otherwise a remarkably unmolested original example, still riding on its original Vredestein tyres, which I had been gingerly preserving for the past twelve years. I had recently posted that the weather checking had gotten so bad that I had a blow out, and that I feared driving any longer on these original tyres, even though I dreaded losing that great unusual tread pattern on the original Vredesteins.
Second, I have since found and mounted four radials on my Amphicar, and I can report the following. Inside at least three of the original Vredestein tyres, including the spare (which had never been on the ground), was an original Vredestein 15 inch tyre tube, indicating that these cars probably did have tubes originally when they were shipped from the factory.
I can also report that despite all of the warnings to the contrary, I was able to mount a 185/80/13 inch radial tyre, and it does not seem to interfere with the rear fender valance, nor with the brake hose mounting clip, although it is very close. I should also stress that this is on an early 1962 without the lower body flare and fender flare, and with the narrower rear shock absorbers.
I have heard from others (presumably with later cars) that this size did rub the brake hose clamp and the shock absorber, and then rubbed the fenders when they tried to use a spacer to move the tyres out farther. This does not seem to be the case on my early 1962, however.
I suppose that it could rub if the tyre was to flex considerably during use, but I suspect that most of the deflection would be near to the bottom of the tyre where it comes in contact with the road, and that at the sides where the brake clip is, will be relatively stable. I will report back after I have put some miles on these tyres to confirm whether they rub at all. I will also confirm if the front tyres rub on the steering stops.
Third, I was able to find a very nice (but inexpensive) Hancook brand radial tyre in this 185/80/13 size at Town Fair Tire for a list price of $68.00 each. I was also able to find a special sale price of $22.00 each for these same tires at Town Fair Tire, based on an ad which coincidentally appeared in my local Boston Globe this past weekend. I purchased all six remaining tires in my area, but you may find a similar sale at a Town Fair Tire nearer to your location. I had five tires mounted, and balanced and put on the car for a total of $204.30 with all taxes included. As this sale price is not availabvle for "cash & Carry", I had to pay the $10.95 balance charge on the sixth extra tire that I purchased, so that mounting and balancing all four tires and a spare would have been $170.00.
Curiously the original Vredestein spare on my early 1962 Amphicar was a 6:40 X 13, and not the 6:50 X 13, which was on all four corners of my car, which means that the original tyres should have been 6.4 or 6.5 inches across the widest cross section, and the height of the total inflated tyre and rim should have been 24.74 inches tall.
The 185/80/13 tyres should be 7.2 inches across the widest cross section, and the total height should be 24.65 or less than one quarter inch less tall than the original size.
I was surprised when the Town Fair Tire guy used his width gauge on the old inflated tire, which measured just under 7 inches, and the new Radial which measured just over 7 inches, showing a difference of less than the .8 inch discrepancy which I expected from the tire sizes. I was also surprised that the new radial was almost an inch shorter in height, despite the tire size calculator indicating that they should be almost identical in height.
I always resent that so much information and warnings get repeated over and over again, sometimes without any actual experience, so I wanted to post my actual experience with these particular tyres.
I also want to say that I have mounted these tyres without any tubes, as I believe that the radial tyres will perform fine without tubes. I also believe that if a tubeless tire did come off of the rim, as a result of the lack of a bead lock on the rim design, I suspect that any tube that might have been inside, would be torn and rendered useless pretty quickly, as the tireless rim bottom ran over and pinched the tube. I just don't buy that you would have any substantial increase in time to react with a tube than without, in a situation involving a tire coming off of the rim.
Finally, while I am aware that everyone recommends 17 pounds of air pressure up front on an Amphicar, and that this low pressure is one of the reasons many fear a tire coming off of the rim, is it possible to run a newer radial tyre with pressure higher than 17 pound (say around 24 to 27), and still get good handling with a newer radial, which might eliminate this risk from the lower pressure, or will the handling be just as poor with more pressure, even with a newer radial. Inquiring minds want to know, and I will be doing some testing to report back to all of you.
Chas
I have some new news and information about this ongoing thread of tires and tubes.
First of all, as many of you know, about twelve years ago, I was fortunate enough to locate and purchase a brand new unsold Amphicar from a former dealer. This car had 468 miles on it, which was the distance from the distribution rail, where three salesmen had been sent to drive the three Amphicars, back to the dealership in Vermont. The now retired dealer told me that the first car sold immediately in 1962, and that the second car took almost five years to sell. He placed this third car away in a storage barn, as there was very little interest in this car back then. As it had been stored poorly, it did require a respray and a new top, but it is otherwise a remarkably unmolested original example, still riding on its original Vredestein tyres, which I had been gingerly preserving for the past twelve years. I had recently posted that the weather checking had gotten so bad that I had a blow out, and that I feared driving any longer on these original tyres, even though I dreaded losing that great unusual tread pattern on the original Vredesteins.
Second, I have since found and mounted four radials on my Amphicar, and I can report the following. Inside at least three of the original Vredestein tyres, including the spare (which had never been on the ground), was an original Vredestein 15 inch tyre tube, indicating that these cars probably did have tubes originally when they were shipped from the factory.
I can also report that despite all of the warnings to the contrary, I was able to mount a 185/80/13 inch radial tyre, and it does not seem to interfere with the rear fender valance, nor with the brake hose mounting clip, although it is very close. I should also stress that this is on an early 1962 without the lower body flare and fender flare, and with the narrower rear shock absorbers.
I have heard from others (presumably with later cars) that this size did rub the brake hose clamp and the shock absorber, and then rubbed the fenders when they tried to use a spacer to move the tyres out farther. This does not seem to be the case on my early 1962, however.
I suppose that it could rub if the tyre was to flex considerably during use, but I suspect that most of the deflection would be near to the bottom of the tyre where it comes in contact with the road, and that at the sides where the brake clip is, will be relatively stable. I will report back after I have put some miles on these tyres to confirm whether they rub at all. I will also confirm if the front tyres rub on the steering stops.
Third, I was able to find a very nice (but inexpensive) Hancook brand radial tyre in this 185/80/13 size at Town Fair Tire for a list price of $68.00 each. I was also able to find a special sale price of $22.00 each for these same tires at Town Fair Tire, based on an ad which coincidentally appeared in my local Boston Globe this past weekend. I purchased all six remaining tires in my area, but you may find a similar sale at a Town Fair Tire nearer to your location. I had five tires mounted, and balanced and put on the car for a total of $204.30 with all taxes included. As this sale price is not availabvle for "cash & Carry", I had to pay the $10.95 balance charge on the sixth extra tire that I purchased, so that mounting and balancing all four tires and a spare would have been $170.00.
Curiously the original Vredestein spare on my early 1962 Amphicar was a 6:40 X 13, and not the 6:50 X 13, which was on all four corners of my car, which means that the original tyres should have been 6.4 or 6.5 inches across the widest cross section, and the height of the total inflated tyre and rim should have been 24.74 inches tall.
The 185/80/13 tyres should be 7.2 inches across the widest cross section, and the total height should be 24.65 or less than one quarter inch less tall than the original size.
I was surprised when the Town Fair Tire guy used his width gauge on the old inflated tire, which measured just under 7 inches, and the new Radial which measured just over 7 inches, showing a difference of less than the .8 inch discrepancy which I expected from the tire sizes. I was also surprised that the new radial was almost an inch shorter in height, despite the tire size calculator indicating that they should be almost identical in height.
I always resent that so much information and warnings get repeated over and over again, sometimes without any actual experience, so I wanted to post my actual experience with these particular tyres.
I also want to say that I have mounted these tyres without any tubes, as I believe that the radial tyres will perform fine without tubes. I also believe that if a tubeless tire did come off of the rim, as a result of the lack of a bead lock on the rim design, I suspect that any tube that might have been inside, would be torn and rendered useless pretty quickly, as the tireless rim bottom ran over and pinched the tube. I just don't buy that you would have any substantial increase in time to react with a tube than without, in a situation involving a tire coming off of the rim.
Finally, while I am aware that everyone recommends 17 pounds of air pressure up front on an Amphicar, and that this low pressure is one of the reasons many fear a tire coming off of the rim, is it possible to run a newer radial tyre with pressure higher than 17 pound (say around 24 to 27), and still get good handling with a newer radial, which might eliminate this risk from the lower pressure, or will the handling be just as poor with more pressure, even with a newer radial. Inquiring minds want to know, and I will be doing some testing to report back to all of you.
Chas
