tires for the amphi

[Jim Davis]

I'm looking to put radials on the Amphi and need some info. I dropped
the original tires off at a Cooper dealer and they called and
laughed. Their answer was Coker tire. What standard tires will work?

jim davis
a soon to be floater

 

[a_colo_native]

Jim,

Try www.widewhitewalltires.com How's Butler looking now?

John Bevins

 

[John Friese]

Jim,

For what it's worth, I have two 67 Amphicars, one with Coker bias ply
and one with Dayton radials. Both are the wide white wall type that
are correct for the car. The car with the bias ply tires has a more
solid feel on the road than the one with radials. Although both cars
drive quite well, the one with the radials seems to wander more and
require more steering correction. I know there are many things that
can cause such a situation but I've checked everything I can think of
to find the cause of the driving difference and now suspect that the
softer side walls on
the radials are probably the reason. I haven't yet got around to
switching the tires and wheels between the two cars but will probably
do so within the next month or so. It's also possible that not all
brands of
radials cause such problems and only these Dayton tires. Even though
I'm not yet certian of the cause, I thought I'd tell you of my
experience. My bias ply tires are Coker Classics and they have been
fine since the beginnning.

John Friese
67 White
67 Red

--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Davis"
<thedavisman@h...> wrote:
> I'm looking to put radials on the Amphi and need some info. I
dropped
> the original tires off at a Cooper dealer and they called and
> laughed. Their answer was Coker tire. What standard tires will work?
>
> jim davis
> a soon to be floater

 

[Arnold Hite]

Jim,

I my experience isn't too different from John Friese's. I have
two Amphicars. My cars both have Coker bias ply tires. One car tracks
well while the other wanders all over the road at 50 mph. I'm afraid to
drive it over 45. I did some work on the front end, replacing the king
pins and a couple of other bushings. I also installed a steering box
brace. Those things helped, moving me from a safe speed of about 30 mph
to 45. That's better but still not too good. Now I suspect the knuckle
joints (or more likely, operator error). So, while tires matter, there
are lots of other things that effect how your car tracks.

Arnold Hite
Johns Island, SC

>Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 02:02:09 -0000
> From: "John Friese" <jfriese@mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: tires for the amphi
>
>Jim,
>
>For what it's worth, I have two 67 Amphicars, one with Coker bias ply
>and one with Dayton radials. Both are the wide white wall type that
>is correct for the car. The car with the bias ply tires has a more
>solid feel on the road than the one with radials. Although both cars
>drive quite well, the one with the radials seems to wander more and
>require more steering correction. I know there are many things that
>can cause such a situation but I've checked everything I can think of
>to find the difference and now suspect that the softer side walls on
>the radials are probably the reason. I haven't yet got around to
>switching the tires and wheels between the two cars but will probably
>do so within the next month or so. It may also not be all brands of
>radials but just those Dayton ones, but I thought I'd tell you of my
>experience. My bias ply tires are Coker Classics and they have been
>fine since the beginnning.
>
>John Friese
>67 White
>67 Red
>
>

 

[John Friese]

Arnold,

Your car sounds worse than mine since mine will drive pretty well at
almost 80 MPH (1296 engine) but be sure to check the rear axle swing
arms and bushings by lifting the rear tires off the ground and try
pulling on those wheels to see if there is any movement of the swing
arms on their axle. Hugh claims this can cause unstable tracking. I
couldn't find any movement at all on mine.

John Friese


--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, Arnold Hite <ahite@C...>
wrote:
> Jim,
>
> I my experience isn't too different from John Friese's. I
have
> two Amphicars. My cars both have Coker bias ply tires. One car
tracks
> well while the other wanders all over the road at 50 mph. I'm
afraid to
> drive it over 45. I did some work on the front end, replacing the
king
> pins and a couple of other bushings. I also installed a steering
box
> brace. Those things helped, moving me from a safe speed of about
30 mph
> to 45. That's better but still not too good. Now I suspect the
knuckle
> joints (or more likely, operator error). So, while tires matter,
there
> are lots of other things that effect how your car tracks.
>
> Arnold Hite
> Johns Island, SC
>
> >Message: 4
> > Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 02:02:09 -0000
> > From: "John Friese" <jfriese@m...>
> >Subject: Re: tires for the amphi
> >
> >Jim,
> >
> >For what it's worth, I have two 67 Amphicars, one with Coker bias
ply
> >and one with Dayton radials. Both are the wide white wall type
that
> >is correct for the car. The car with the bias ply tires has a
more
> >solid feel on the road than the one with radials. Although both
cars
> >drive quite well, the one with the radials seems to wander more
and
> >require more steering correction. I know there are many things
that
> >can cause such a situation but I've checked everything I can think
of
> >to find the difference and now suspect that the softer side walls
on
> >the radials are probably the reason. I haven't yet got around to
> >switching the tires and wheels between the two cars but will
probably
> >do so within the next month or so. It may also not be all brands
of
> >radials but just those Dayton ones, but I thought I'd tell you of
my
> >experience. My bias ply tires are Coker Classics and they have
been
> >fine since the beginnning.
> >
> >John Friese
> >67 White
> >67 Red
> >
> >

 

[a_colo_native]

My car has the radials and if the road is decent, I can drive her at
70 no problem (no sudden moves!). I prefer to keep it at 60 to 65. I
have wanted to try the bias tires to compare for sometime.

John "Are we there yet?" Bevins

 

[Arnold Hite]

John,

Thanks for the tip. I'm even more impressed that your Amphi will
go 80.

Arnold

>Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 15:01:34 -0000
> From: "John Friese" <jfriese@mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: Tires For the Amphi
>
>Arnold,
>
>Your car sounds worse than mine since mine will drive pretty well at
>almost 80 MPH (1296 engine) but be sure to check the rear axle swing
>arms and bushings by lifting the rear tires off the ground and try
>pulling on those wheels to see if there is any movement of the swing
>arms on their axle. Hugh claims this can cause unstable tracking. I
>couldn't find any movement at all on mine.
>
>John Friese
>
>
>
>
>

 

[Bill Connelly]

Re: Re: Tires For the Amphi

Your car sounds worse than mine since mine will drive pretty well at
almost 80 MPH (1296 engine) but be sure to check the rear axle swing
arms and bushings by lifting the rear tires off the ground and try
pulling on those wheels to see if there is any movement of the swing
arms on their axle. Hugh claims this can cause unstable tracking. I
couldn't find any movement at all on mine.

John Friese

================

Yes indeed. According to Billy Syx of East Coast Amphicar (
http://www.amphicar.net/eca ), problems in the rear suspension are one of
the very commonest occurences in the dozens of Amphicars he has restored.
The problems in this area typically include: loose, stripped or broken
pinchbolts holding the swing arms onto the stub axles (see
http://www.amphicar.net/partsinfo.htm for a possible "easy fix" from Billy
for this), "ovalling" wear of the normally round part of the swing arms that
fits onto the stub axle (caused by a weak or broken pinch bolt, as just
described), or improperly tensioned stub axles (such tensioning apparently
being commonly overlooked during some previous re-assemblies of the Amphis
he sees). Any of these issues could impair good handling so much that it
wouldn't matter what tires you were running on.

Just for the record, I'll be driving to Celina on a set of Cokers...Nice and
straight and even the whole way, thanks to Billy.

~Bilgey~

 

[David Chapman]

Re: Re: Tires For the Amphi

> Your car sounds worse than mine since mine will drive pretty well at
> almost 80 MPH (1296 engine) but be sure to check the rear axle swing

The fastest Amphicar will always be the 1147cc simply because it revs higher
than the later larger engines, you need something around 6000rpm to get up
to around 80 and the 1500 and most 1300s can't take that - of course the
larger engine wins in 0-60 times.
Another factor is tyres - the bias tyres have larger rolling diameter and so
for the same speedo reading those cars will be going faster.

> for this), "ovalling" wear of the normally round part of the swing arms
that
> fits onto the stub axle (caused by a weak or broken pinch bolt, as just

The pinch bolt holding on the rear axles is a critical part on Amphicar,
there should be no movement in this area. However there is some significant
risk in overrating (replacing with non standard) or overtightening this bolt
because you want the bolt to give a little bit to warn of a problem. What
you don't want to happen is for it to suddenly snap because then the wheel
and axle will come off and fold under the car, this is unusual but has
happened. If you can see any movement between the axle and swing arm the
only solution is to machine it, there are a number of ways to do this,
normally machining the cast axle housing is best and then fitting a sleeve
so it the correct size for the axle, The axle itself is normally in better
condition as it is hardened.

David Chapman in the UK.

 

[John Friese]

Hello David,

My Amphi with the 1296 is much faster and more powerful than my other
Amphi that has an 1147. The 1296 engine also has a short stroke so
it should have identical rev. qualities with the 1147. I suspect the
increased piston diameter would result in a slight and
inconsequential weight difference. In any case the car easily
reaches 80 MPH and that's as fast as I want to go. It also allows
me to climb 6% grades without downshifting from 4th. I've also run a
1500 in this car and really liked the additional power around town
but I was worried about its long stroke and what freeway runs at 70-
75 MPH might do to it. So now that engine sits in dry storage. Too
bad since the 1500 engine makes the Amphicar almost "fast" around
town. Since I do rather lengthy, high speed, freeway drives in my
cars, I didn't want to worry about the 1500 blowing up and found the
1296 to be a good compromise for me.

I've checked the speed of these cars with a GPS that reads down to
tenths of miles per hour and find not only are my speedometers quite
accurate but I can't say the tire difference is very consequential to
the readings.

I have a tach in my cars and 75 MPH is about 5300 RPM. I don't
remember what the revs. were around 80 but I would think it would
still be under 6000 RPM.


John Friese
67 White
67 Red



--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, "David Chapman" <david@m...>
wrote:
> > Your car sounds worse than mine since mine will drive pretty well
at
> > almost 80 MPH (1296 engine) but be sure to check the rear axle
swing
>
> The fastest Amphicar will always be the 1147cc simply because it
revs higher
> than the later larger engines, you need something around 6000rpm to
get up
> to around 80 and the 1500 and most 1300s can't take that - of
course the
> larger engine wins in 0-60 times.
> Another factor is tyres - the bias tyres have larger rolling
diameter and so
> for the same speedo reading those cars will be going faster.
>
> > for this), "ovalling" wear of the normally round part of the
swing arms
> that
> > fits onto the stub axle (caused by a weak or broken pinch bolt,
as just
>
> The pinch bolt holding on the rear axles is a critical part on
Amphicar,
> there should be no movement in this area. However there is some
significant
> risk in overrating (replacing with non standard) or overtightening
this bolt
> because you want the bolt to give a little bit to warn of a
problem. What
> you don't want to happen is for it to suddenly snap because then
the wheel
> and axle will come off and fold under the car, this is unusual but
has
> happened. If you can see any movement between the axle and swing
arm the
> only solution is to machine it, there are a number of ways to do
this,
> normally machining the cast axle housing is best and then fitting a
sleeve
> so it the correct size for the axle, The axle itself is normally in
better
> condition as it is hardened.
>
> David Chapman in the UK.

 

[WB6WSN]

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Davis
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 5:24 PM
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] tires for the amphi


I'm looking to put radials on the Amphi and need some info. I dropped
the original tires off at a Cooper dealer and they called and
laughed. Their answer was Coker tire. What standard tires will work?

jim davis
a soon to be floater



I just bought some Yokohama Avid Touring tires for my commuter car at Discount
Tire http://www.discounttire.com/ . While waiting for the job, I asked them
about Amphicar tires and wheels. I was surprised to find that Discount's Classic
Car catalog had a listing for Amphicar tires; they suggested 6.40-13 (right).
The counterman even felt that I could get aftermarket wheels if I wanted them.
He's eager for me to bring in an old wheel for him to measure the offset and
other info.

I wouldn't give my business to a shop that laughs at me (it's OK if they laugh
WITH me). Anyway, once you are OK with a wheel, then there's lots of
possibilities about the tire. You can put a radial tire and radial tube on the
Amphi rim, you can get a new rim and use a radial tubeless, you can get a
"classic" large w/w bias ply tire & tube, and I THINK you could even go to a 14"
rim using the "plus size" concept to adjust the tire diameter to match the old
6.40 bias tire.

Maybe you will come up with an answer before me (quite likely, as my Amphi work
is on hold while I rebuild fences). Good luck.

Ed
El Cajon
67 Rust Guppy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

[David Chapman]

Re: Re: Tires For the Amphi

Hello David,

My Amphi with the 1296 is much faster and more powerful than my other
Amphi that has an 1147. The 1296 engine also has a short stroke so
it should have identical rev. qualities with the 1147. I suspect the
increased piston diameter would result in a slight and
inconsequential weight difference. In any case the car easily
reaches 80 MPH and that's as fast as I want to go. It also allows
me to climb 6% grades without downshifting from 4th. I've also run a
1500 in this car and really liked the additional power around town
but I was worried about its long stroke and what freeway runs at 70-
75 MPH might do to it. So now that engine sits in dry storage. Too
bad since the 1500 engine makes the Amphicar almost "fast" around
town. Since I do rather lengthy, high speed, freeway drives in my
cars, I didn't want to worry about the 1500 blowing up and found the
1296 to be a good compromise for me.

I've checked the speed of these cars with a GPS that reads down to
tenths of miles per hour and find not only are my speedometers quite
accurate but I can't say the tire difference is very consequential to
the readings.

I have a tach in my cars and 75 MPH is about 5300 RPM. I don't
remember what the revs. were around 80 but I would think it would
still be under 6000 RPM.


John Friese

John, The short stroke 1296 is the exception ! That engine has the GE prefix in
the Triumph Herald (not sure of the Spitfire equivalent) and revs as well as the
1147 - I didn't mention it because I didn't think it was ever available in the
States, I thought all the 1296 and 1500s were large crank ?, These are the
engines that don't rev - mainly because there are some fundemental problems with
crankshaft balance that were never properly solved. The small crank 1296 is a
rare engine here because so many have been used for racing over the last 35
years but I have one I plan to fit before long. I thought the revs were a bit
higher than 5300 at 75 but haven't checked my rev counter ! The other thing that
makes a difference at high revs is engine breathing - things like the exhaust
routing and that silly flame arrestor that is fitted to US cars.

David C

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

[John Friese]

Hello David,

There are two basic variations (and more minor subsets) of the 1296
over here, the small crank and the large crank. Both engines have the
same stroke but the large crank version has the larger journal
bearings like the 1500. The small crank version is more rare and
more often used by the race car guys because of its lower crank mass
which makes the engine slightly more responsive. There is a lot of
disagreement about the relative values of these variations but I
talked to a very experienced racer who has used the large crank
version, in racing, for years and swears by it. He claims the
beefier journal bearings make the engine far more durable and since
it still has the same stroke, the engine is even better at higher
RPMs. Hugh doesn't agree but I found the guy's story so convincing
that I just had a large crank version of the engine built up and will
be trying it out in my other car soon. I had the crank balanced and
the intake ports polished along with the usual hardened valve seats
and new exhaust valves. I also put in new chrome rings. I'm
expecting it to be a nice runner.

I just came up with a way of fitting the Amphicar air cleaner to the
Weber downdraft carb. and I'm real happy with the results. It makes
the whole engine installation look "correct". You can see a photo of
it at:

http://members.cox.net/jfriese/amphiwebercombo21.jpg

The installation not only looks good but the adapter looks like it is
a flame arrestor. I think the whole flame arrestor thing over here
is rather silly since the air cleaner will do a pretty good job of
killing any backfire flames and nobody seems to check for them
anyway. I've never used one on my car with the larger engine and
wouldn't know where to find one if I wanted to.

John Friese

67 White
67 Red






--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, "David Chapman" <david@m...>
wrote:
> Hello David,
>
> My Amphi with the 1296 is much faster and more powerful than my
other
> Amphi that has an 1147. The 1296 engine also has a short stroke so
> it should have identical rev. qualities with the 1147. I suspect the
> increased piston diameter would result in a slight and
> inconsequential weight difference. In any case the car easily
> reaches 80 MPH and that's as fast as I want to go. It also allows
> me to climb 6% grades without downshifting from 4th. I've also run a
> 1500 in this car and really liked the additional power around town
> but I was worried about its long stroke and what freeway runs at 70-
> 75 MPH might do to it. So now that engine sits in dry storage. Too
> bad since the 1500 engine makes the Amphicar almost "fast" around
> town. Since I do rather lengthy, high speed, freeway drives in my
> cars, I didn't want to worry about the 1500 blowing up and found
the
> 1296 to be a good compromise for me.
>
> I've checked the speed of these cars with a GPS that reads down to
> tenths of miles per hour and find not only are my speedometers quite
> accurate but I can't say the tire difference is very consequential
to
> the readings.
>
> I have a tach in my cars and 75 MPH is about 5300 RPM. I don't
> remember what the revs. were around 80 but I would think it would
> still be under 6000 RPM.
>
>
> John Friese
>
> John, The short stroke 1296 is the exception ! That engine has the
GE prefix in the Triumph Herald (not sure of the Spitfire equivalent)
and revs as well as the 1147 - I didn't mention it because I didn't
think it was ever available in the States, I thought all the 1296 and
1500s were large crank ?, These are the engines that don't rev -
mainly because there are some fundemental problems with crankshaft
balance that were never properly solved. The small crank 1296 is a
rare engine here because so many have been used for racing over the
last 35 years but I have one I plan to fit before long. I thought the
revs were a bit higher than 5300 at 75 but haven't checked my rev
counter ! The other thing that makes a difference at high revs is
engine breathing - things like the exhaust routing and that silly
flame arrestor that is fitted to US cars.
>
> David C
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

[David Chapman]

Re: Re: Tires For the Amphi

John,

That is simply the neatest and best 1296 setup I've seen, as you say the carb
looks great and very close to original, more details and photos please ! What
sort of inlet manifold, which exact Weber carb and how did you jet it, how did
you route the exhaust manifold ? I assume it's small crank so standard clutch ?

The 1500 is a good engine for torque but in my experience always sounds rough
when reved, makes the 1147 feel like a six !
I'm sure by careful building some of that can be eliminated and the 1500 is
common here in Triumph based road cars but very rarely seen in racers, even the
guys who supercharge the engine prefer the 1296.

Another issue with the 1500 is most were built in the 1970s and there were a few
quality issues (understatement) in the Triumph product at that time, hence why
it all stopped in 1978. Also be aware that there are some 1500 engines and
components about there were never properly finished, in particular there are
crankshafts and camshafts around that were not properly hardened, be very
careful when buying NOS parts for these later engines !

David C.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Friese
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 8:08 AM
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] Re: Tires For the Amphi


Hello David,

There are two basic variations (and more minor subsets) of the 1296
over here, the small crank and the large crank. Both engines have the
same stroke but the large crank version has the larger journal
bearings like the 1500. The small crank version is more rare and
more often used by the race car guys because of its lower crank mass
which makes the engine slightly more responsive. There is a lot of
disagreement about the relative values of these variations but I
talked to a very experienced racer who has used the large crank
version, in racing, for years and swears by it. He claims the
beefier journal bearings make the engine far more durable and since
it still has the same stroke, the engine is even better at higher
RPMs. Hugh doesn't agree but I found the guy's story so convincing
that I just had a large crank version of the engine built up and will
be trying it out in my other car soon. I had the crank balanced and
the intake ports polished along with the usual hardened valve seats
and new exhaust valves. I also put in new chrome rings. I'm
expecting it to be a nice runner.

I just came up with a way of fitting the Amphicar air cleaner to the
Weber downdraft carb. and I'm real happy with the results. It makes
the whole engine installation look "correct". You can see a photo of
it at:

http://members.cox.net/jfriese/amphiwebercombo21.jpg

The installation not only looks good but the adapter looks like it is
a flame arrestor. I think the whole flame arrestor thing over here
is rather silly since the air cleaner will do a pretty good job of
killing any backfire flames and nobody seems to check for them
anyway. I've never used one on my car with the larger engine and
wouldn't know where to find one if I wanted to.

John Friese

67 White
67 Red






--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, "David Chapman" <david@m...>
wrote:
> Hello David,
>
> My Amphi with the 1296 is much faster and more powerful than my
other
> Amphi that has an 1147. The 1296 engine also has a short stroke so
> it should have identical rev. qualities with the 1147. I suspect the
> increased piston diameter would result in a slight and
> inconsequential weight difference. In any case the car easily
> reaches 80 MPH and that's as fast as I want to go. It also allows
> me to climb 6% grades without downshifting from 4th. I've also run a
> 1500 in this car and really liked the additional power around town
> but I was worried about its long stroke and what freeway runs at 70-
> 75 MPH might do to it. So now that engine sits in dry storage. Too
> bad since the 1500 engine makes the Amphicar almost "fast" around
> town. Since I do rather lengthy, high speed, freeway drives in my
> cars, I didn't want to worry about the 1500 blowing up and found
the
> 1296 to be a good compromise for me.
>
> I've checked the speed of these cars with a GPS that reads down to
> tenths of miles per hour and find not only are my speedometers quite
> accurate but I can't say the tire difference is very consequential
to
> the readings.
>
> I have a tach in my cars and 75 MPH is about 5300 RPM. I don't
> remember what the revs. were around 80 but I would think it would
> still be under 6000 RPM.
>
>
> John Friese
>
> John, The short stroke 1296 is the exception ! That engine has the
GE prefix in the Triumph Herald (not sure of the Spitfire equivalent)
and revs as well as the 1147 - I didn't mention it because I didn't
think it was ever available in the States, I thought all the 1296 and
1500s were large crank ?, These are the engines that don't rev -
mainly because there are some fundemental problems with crankshaft
balance that were never properly solved. The small crank 1296 is a
rare engine here because so many have been used for racing over the
last 35 years but I have one I plan to fit before long. I thought the
revs were a bit higher than 5300 at 75 but haven't checked my rev
counter ! The other thing that makes a difference at high revs is
engine breathing - things like the exhaust routing and that silly
flame arrestor that is fitted to US cars.
>
> David C
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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