The Importance of Edge Detail

[John Friese]

I've noticed bubbles forming in the paint near the edges of one of my
Amphicar doors and a close examination has revealed an issue that
I've never seen mentioned in Amphicar discussions. It seems that
although both the inside and outside surfaces of the car were painted
quite well during restoration, not enough care was taken to the lower
edges of the body panels and the doors. Careful examination reveals
that water has been able to work its way between the inner and outer
sheets of the body along these lower edges and caused rust to occur.
It's easy to see how this area gets overlooked since it's often the
area where the paint color ends. When preparing an Amphicar for
paint, every edge where these sheets come together should be
carefully filled and sealed with something to be sure that when the
paint goes on these edges will not be left open to the entry of
moisture. I suppose a good quality seam sealer would do the job but
I've never heard anyone talk about this issue or give recomendations
for what works best here. I would like to hear what you people found
that works best. For you folks currently doing restoratons, I would
carefully check all these areas where sheets comes together, paying
particular attention to areas that get under water when the car is
swimming. Don't forget the areas that are under the aluminum edge
strips too since you can't expect these strips to keep water out and
water that gets behind those strips will have an even tougher time
drying out. How about some tips from you guys with experience
restoring these cars.

John Friese
67 White
67 Red

 

[David Chapman]

>>I've noticed bubbles forming in the paint near the edges of one of my
Amphicar doors and a close examination has revealed an issue that
I've never seen mentioned in Amphicar discussions. It seems that
although both the inside and outside surfaces of the car were painted
quite well during restoration, not enough care was taken to the lower
edges of the body panels and the doors. Careful examination reveals
that water has been able to work its way between the inner and outer
sheets of the body along these lower edges and caused rust to occur.
It's easy to see how this area gets overlooked since it's often the
area where the paint color ends. When preparing an Amphicar for
paint, every edge where these sheets come together should be
carefully filled and sealed with something to be sure that when the
paint goes on these edges will not be left open to the entry of
moisture. I suppose a good quality seam sealer would do the job but
I've never heard anyone talk about this issue or give recomendations
for what works best here. I would like to hear what you people found
that works best. For you folks currently doing restoratons, I would
carefully check all these areas where sheets comes together, paying
particular attention to areas that get under water when the car is
swimming. Don't forget the areas that are under the aluminum edge
strips too since you can't expect these strips to keep water out and
water that gets behind those strips will have an even tougher time
drying out. How about some tips from you guys with experience
restoring these cars.

John Friese
67 White
67 Red
<<

John, that is quite a common problem in the European climate. The first area
to go is normally the bottom of the doors an inch or so back from the front
edge. This is because when normally parked Amphi is slightly nose down and
so water collects here. It's really just down to the design of the doors and
the way the metal joins there - it's a natural water trap. Amphicar painted
it but as you say it needs more than paint.

There are weld-through primers you can use but I'm not convinced they work.
I use an automotive seam sealer called Sikaflex that is part sealant part
adhesive but importantly stays flexable. It is however applied by a
cartridge gun and near impossible to get to some areas so there I use the
old British favourite Waxoyl, this can be applied by spray or brush, it's a
pain to spray unless it's hot as it's not really thin enough. This works
well in filling the gap and so stopping water getting in but needs
re-applying every 5 years, the great thing about Waxoyl is if you do need to
remove it you just wipe it away with a White Spirit covered rag.

Waxoyl was diffiicult to get in the US but is now imported by most of the
British car places.

Some restored Amphicars don't have the drain holes in the bottom of the
doors, these are also important to reproduce.

To try and reduce the amount of water getting into the doors Amphicar fitted
the splash rubbers to later cars.

Something else - I'm sure white Amphicars rust more than any other colour, I
thought it was just that white showed the rust more but it's apparently down
to paint technology of 40 years ago, the white pigment means the paint
doesn't stick as well. I thought this thing about white paint was urban
legend but I've heard it from a number of places, most recently a guy who
has restored dozens of 1960s Alfa Romeos.


David Chapman in the UK

 

[a_colo_native]

John,

Proper prep of the surfaces and application of paints will prevent
the rust from making those bubbles. The edges are a surface as well
so the prep is equally important. A clean surface is all you need
before metal surfaces are sealed (if bare metal), primed & painted.
If water is creeping under and edge, the surface has not allowed
proper adhesion of the paint (insufficient coverage) or incorrect
primer was used. Make sure to get enough paint and primer along
those areas.

Most primers are not waterproof. Meaning that they do not seal the
surface from moisture. We used an epoxy primer to prevent this. A
bare metal panel with only standard primer on it will rust within
days under the primer if subjected to moisture.

My car has well over 200 hours in the water in the last 2 years
and no signs of bubbling. I did recently notice he did not reproduce
the drains in the doors. This has caused some problems. They are in
there now! The only exception is the lip along the front edge above
the trim on my trund lid. This is because of poor surface
preperation by a hurried bodyman taking shortcuts (he was late for
vacation).

John Bevins
Rocky Mountain Amphicar

 

[John Friese]

Hello David,

I think Waxoyl is available over here from Moss Motors.

I believe the reason that white cars rust quicker is that
the color reflects more light and therefore the sheet metal
doesn't get as warm in the sunlight as darker colored cars.
The extra warth that darker colored cars have dry out the
moisture more quickly and therefore they rust less. Given
the pressurized water that Amphicars encounter I wouldn't
think that such color differences would be a very
significant factor in their rust problems.

John Friese
67 White
67 Red







--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, "David Chapman"
<david@m...> wrote:
> >>I've noticed bubbles forming in the paint near the edges
of one of my
> Amphicar doors and a close examination has revealed an
issue that
> I've never seen mentioned in Amphicar discussions. It
seems that
> although both the inside and outside surfaces of the car
were painted
> quite well during restoration, not enough care was taken
to the lower
> edges of the body panels and the doors. Careful
examination reveals
> that water has been able to work its way between the inner
and outer
> sheets of the body along these lower edges and caused rust
to occur.
> It's easy to see how this area gets overlooked since it's
often the
> area where the paint color ends. When preparing an
Amphicar for
> paint, every edge where these sheets come together should
be
> carefully filled and sealed with something to be sure that
when the
> paint goes on these edges will not be left open to the
entry of
> moisture. I suppose a good quality seam sealer would do
the job but
> I've never heard anyone talk about this issue or give
recomendations
> for what works best here. I would like to hear what you
people found
> that works best. For you folks currently doing
restoratons, I would
> carefully check all these areas where sheets comes
together, paying
> particular attention to areas that get under water when
the car is
> swimming. Don't forget the areas that are under the
aluminum edge
> strips too since you can't expect these strips to keep
water out and
> water that gets behind those strips will have an even
tougher time
> drying out. How about some tips from you guys with
experience
> restoring these cars.
>
> John Friese
> 67 White
> 67 Red
> <<
>
> John, that is quite a common problem in the European
climate. The first area
> to go is normally the bottom of the doors an inch or so
back from the front
> edge. This is because when normally parked Amphi is
slightly nose down and
> so water collects here. It's really just down to the
design of the doors and
> the way the metal joins there - it's a natural water trap.
Amphicar painted
> it but as you say it needs more than paint.
>
> There are weld-through primers you can use but I'm not
convinced they work.
> I use an automotive seam sealer called Sikaflex that is
part sealant part
> adhesive but importantly stays flexable. It is however
applied by a
> cartridge gun and near impossible to get to some areas so
there I use the
> old British favourite Waxoyl, this can be applied by spray
or brush, it's a
> pain to spray unless it's hot as it's not really thin
enough. This works
> well in filling the gap and so stopping water getting in
but needs
> re-applying every 5 years, the great thing about Waxoyl is
if you do need to
> remove it you just wipe it away with a White Spirit
covered rag.
>
> Waxoyl was diffiicult to get in the US but is now imported
by most of the
> British car places.
>
> Some restored Amphicars don't have the drain holes in the
bottom of the
> doors, these are also important to reproduce.
>
> To try and reduce the amount of water getting into the
doors Amphicar fitted
> the splash rubbers to later cars.
>
> Something else - I'm sure white Amphicars rust more than
any other colour, I
> thought it was just that white showed the rust more but
it's apparently down
> to paint technology of 40 years ago, the white pigment
means the paint
> doesn't stick as well. I thought this thing about white
paint was urban
> legend but I've heard it from a number of places, most
recently a guy who
> has restored dozens of 1960s Alfa Romeos.
>
>
> David Chapman in the UK