Sunken Amphi Part IV - The Reality

[a_colo_native]

I can't believe it. The guy who is working on the car (not the owner)
is going to try to start it! I have been very detailed in the things
he MUST do to preserve the car. But against my advice he foolishly
thinks he can start it. I wish he would let someone who knows these
cars preserve it. Umm yes, like me!

I told him...

"I strongly suggest that they (trans/engine) both be dismantled and
completely cleaned before trying to start or run them. A small piece
of grit in the wrong place, or a very small area of rust can turn
into a catastrophic failure, and bye bye trans.

This process can't be hurried. Parts of this car are rusting as we
speak, soon to be useless or damaged. The priority should be in
stopping the rust. If a wheel bearing rusts solid, the wheel won't
turn and of course this means more $$ for the rare parts to be
replaced. I really can't stress this enough. With only a few of these
cars left, parts are getting rarer and more spendy."


This frustrates me *greatly* as I can see how that car has great
potential to be preserved with *proper* care. But it seems that he is
not heeding my advice on the subject. I fear the car is quickly
heading toward being a parts car. If he does not spend his time
stopping the rust rather that starting it or polishing the chrome,
the car will be lost. I'd bet that by weeks end, the wheels will be
rusted solid let alone everything else that will be without the
proper attention. Grrrrrrrrr.........

 

[rogtwo@aol.com]

OK John, I don't have the experience you do with Amphicars, but I think maybe
you're being a bit hard on them regarding their restoration of the sunken
car.

The engine likely has no more rust than an engine that sat for 15 years in a
damp climate. If it turns over fairly easily (indicating minimal rust), then
I think running it is a good idea. If you drain the water and add new oil to
the engine, then running it is a good way to get all the internal parts dry
and oiled. A bit of water still in the engine isn't going to hurt anything if
you have good oil in there also. And, running the engine will drive the water
out and oil the parts, thus preventing more rust.

Again, if the transmission turns over easily, then the rust is probably not
too bad. By running the transmission, you will get the parts oiled to prevent
further rusting. Any light rust on the gear teeth will quickly wear off, and
probably not cause any problems. Ball or roller bearings will likewise clean
up when run in clean oil. Journal bearings may suffer some wear before the
rust wears off, but this is a risk I'd be willing to take. Finally, running
seals (like the double lip seal for the drive shafts), are the most likely to
suffer damage from rust on the shafts. But, again you could have the same
problem with a car that sits parked for a long time, especially if it was parked
right after swimming.

If they turn easily, personally I'd run the engine and transmission and then
replace the oil -- maybe after 5 minutes of run time. Seals can be replaced
if they leak. If they don't, then you saved a lot of work.

The wheel bearings, suspension pivots, and the like are what I think is most
likely to have problems. With these parts you can't just drain the water out.
These parts should be disassembled, cleaned and greased. But, as long as
your not driving the car, I don't think it is an emergency. Since these parts
are mostly sealed, not a lot of air is getting in there to promote rust. If
they get to them in a couple of weeks, I think not much will have changed. Also
note that these parts get soaked every time you put an Amphi in the water.
You don't have to sink the car to get water in these parts. Driving in and out
of the water a bunch of times will likely drive more water into these parts
than just sitting still in the water for 15 years will.

I think that all the body needs to limit rust is a good wash and drying.
Having sunk isn't going to cause significantly more problems with the body than
swimming it is.

Finally all the accessories -- brakes, wipers, heater, cables, etc. -- is
where I think they will need to spend the most time. All these things can trap
water that will cause corrosion over time if they are not dried and lubricated.

Just my opinion.

Roger
White '63
Seattle


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[SeaMasterZ@aol.com]

O M G!!

the amphi was down for FIFTEEN YEARS???

and its runnable?????

well, not froze anyway

lol, they did do well in englands lake like environment!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

[a_colo_native]

> OK John, I don't have the experience you do with Amphicars, but I
think maybe
> you're being a bit hard on them regarding their restoration of the
sunken
> car.


I'm a guy who knows cars (I restored my 1st car while still in 8th
grade, 1937 Ford Tudor) and really appreciates the story behind this
car. However, this car has a great story behind it and more left. To
be able to say "IT ran!" verses the reality that the rare engine and
trans could (and no doubt it will be) easily be destroyed or severely
damaged should over ride the bragging rights.

I would bet $$ on it that with proper care, everything but electrical
components/upholstery could be saved with a little common sense and
some time. I doubt it would even need a paint job. By dismantling the
engine and trans, they will be saved to run again. By running them,
they could be destroyed. For what??

I spoke with a local guy who does million $$ restorations (he has 3
of Leno's Buggattis and an Atlantique now) about this. He was appaled
that anyone would consider even turning it over let alone trying to
start it. He confirmed that my advice was "on the money and
professional".

While I don't think that my way is the only way, and based on other
professional's advice, I firmly believe in this case it is the
correct way and the best hope for the cars survival.

Cap'n John

 

[Ed Price]

Re: Re: Sunken Amphi Part IV - The Reality

----- Original Message -----
From: a_colo_native
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 6:44 AM
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] Re: Sunken Amphi Part IV - The Reality


> OK John, I don't have the experience you do with Amphicars, but I
think maybe
> you're being a bit hard on them regarding their restoration of the
sunken
> car.


I'm a guy who knows cars (I restored my 1st car while still in 8th
grade, 1937 Ford Tudor) and really appreciates the story behind this
car. However, this car has a great story behind it and more left. To
be able to say "IT ran!" verses the reality that the rare engine and
trans could (and no doubt it will be) easily be destroyed or severely
damaged should over ride the bragging rights.

I would bet $$ on it that with proper care, everything but electrical
components/upholstery could be saved with a little common sense and
some time. I doubt it would even need a paint job. By dismantling the
engine and trans, they will be saved to run again. By running them,
they could be destroyed. For what??

I spoke with a local guy who does million $$ restorations (he has 3
of Leno's Buggattis and an Atlantique now) about this. He was appaled
that anyone would consider even turning it over let alone trying to
start it. He confirmed that my advice was "on the money and
professional".

While I don't think that my way is the only way, and based on other
professional's advice, I firmly believe in this case it is the
correct way and the best hope for the cars survival.

Cap'n John


You're right in all your advice, but.......

Most people would go for the brag. Remember in Sleeper, Woody Allen finds this
VW that's been in a cave for like 500 years. What does he do, think about
preservation? Naah, he hops in, fires it up and roars out of the cave. And how
many of us were cheering him on?

And what do you think about the impression that this scene left on a generation?
Sure, it was a dumb laugh, but it left a very positive sub-conscious image of
VW. Or am I in too deep?

Ed


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[a_colo_native]

--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Price" <edprice@c...>
wrote:
You're right in all your advice, but.......

Most people would go for the brag. Remember in Sleeper, Woody Allen
finds this
VW that's been in a cave for like 500 years. What does he do, think
about
preservation? Naah, he hops in, fires it up and roars out of the
cave. And how
many of us were cheering him on?

And what do you think about the impression that this scene left on a
generation? Sure, it was a dumb laugh, but it left a very positive
sub-conscious image of VW. Or am I in too deep?

Ed,

I fully see and understand your (and others) opinions. However, My
opinin is more toward looking further ahead towards the future with a
smidge of common sense added.

After the owner spent a significant amount of money and effort in
pulling the "Amphi-tanic" into the light, I felt he would rather
spend the money and time on saving the car instead of paying lots of
cash to fix the severe damage that will certainly be the result
of "Bragging rights" for a few moments. I only gave the professional
advice I would expect if it were my car and my money. Just as I would
expect from any else.

Please keep in mind, this is my opinion and in no way do I think I
have the only right answer. I think it would certainly peg
the 'Coolness meter" if it were to start and run, but I also think it
is foolish to try. JMNSHO

John