Seal between water and land trans

[g_zink_us]

Question for anyone who's replaced the seal between the land and
water transmissions. My water trans. is over full and the land trans.
1/2 full so I think the seal between the two needs to be replaced. I
really don't want to pull the entire engine and trans and disturb the
drive shafts unless I have to. Is it possible to replace the seal by
either removing the water transmission cover or entire water
transmission? If anyone has done it, I would appreciate some tips.
Greg Z.
Balmy(believe it or not) Michigan

 

[Marc Schlemmer]

Greg,
You can take the cover off the water tranny and get to the seal between the
two transmissions....you do not need to remove the transmission. (just
drain the oil).
It's not the easiest job, but it isn't too bad. The worst part is that it
is difficult to work in that position!
Your description, however, seems wrong to me. I'm pretty sure that your oil
levels are backwards for that seal being bad. I think the oil in the WATER
trans will be too low, and the LAND trans will be too full. If the seal is
bad, the oil runs from the water transmission to the land transmission.
Make sure this is correct before you dive into this project.

Good Luck,
Marc Schlemmer.

 

[Greg]

Re: RE: Seal between water and land trans

Thanks for the advice, Marc. I'm not 100% certain that
I have a problem but it seems a few times last year, I
found my land trans low on oil, added a little and
didn't think too much about it. When I first pulled it
out of the garage this year, I checked the oil and
again found the land low and water appeared over full.
My thought was, the oil would migrate from the land
trans while driving if the seal were bad because the
forward spin of the gears would force it into the
water trans. Anyone else have experience with this
seal. I think I'll refill again and monitor it for a
while to be sure.
Greg

--- Marc Schlemmer <mschlem@amphicar.net> wrote:
> Greg,
> You can take the cover off the water tranny and get
> to the seal between the
> two transmissions....you do not need to remove the
> transmission. (just
> drain the oil).
> It's not the easiest job, but it isn't too bad. The
> worst part is that it
> is difficult to work in that position!
> Your description, however, seems wrong to me. I'm
> pretty sure that your oil
> levels are backwards for that seal being bad. I
> think the oil in the WATER
> trans will be too low, and the LAND trans will be
> too full. If the seal is
> bad, the oil runs from the water transmission to the
> land transmission.
> Make sure this is correct before you dive into this
> project.
>
> Good Luck,
> Marc Schlemmer.
>
>


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[Marc Schlemmer]

---Greg wrote---
> I think I'll refill again and monitor it for a while to be sure.
> Greg

Much easier to do with the transmission dip stick! I bet we'll hear more
complaints about that seal this year than ever before. With it easier to
check the oil in the transmission, I bet people will check it more often and
find a problem they didn't know they had!

Marc.

 

[Bill Connelly]

Re: RE: Seal between water and land trans

Here's my two cents as a confirmed lubricant fetishist: My situation is
similar to Greg's in that I have also noticed that over time some of the oil
in the land tranny will slurp over into the water tranny, especially when I
check the levels after a longish road trip.

This matter came up on the List before, and it seems that some folks see the
slippery stuff migrate from the land to the water tranny, while other folks
see it going in the opposite direction. Apart from a ragged oil seal
between the two trannies, another factor that perhaps contributes to
footloose fluids may be the orientation of the the vanes on the filler caps.
The vanes are designed to direct the oil stream over the gears and such, but
if turned this way or that may direct part of the stream directly at the
seal, which, if a little "broken in," will naturally allow some of the goo
to seep next door. I've found that making certain that the filler caps are
seated properly, with the vanes in proper orientation (in my case, with the
pressed steel "stem" of the vanes lined up with in the notch of the fill
hole) can greatly stem the migration. In fact, in my case it's been some
time since I've noticed any movement at all. Just keep an eye on those
levels and (just as important) the condition of the oil, and all should be
well.

I think Marc's probably right when he noted in his other List posting on
this topic that the Club's gift to the Members of that great tranny level
dipstick will mean that more folks will be seeing this migratory behavior
who had perhaps never noticed it before.

For ready reference, there's more info on tranny oil changing and so on on
the Club's "Repair & Restoration Resources" page at
http://www.amphicar.com/restoration.htm#trannies

~Bilgey~

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] RE: Seal between water and land trans


Thanks for the advice, Marc. I'm not 100% certain that
I have a problem but it seems a few times last year, I
found my land trans low on oil, added a little and
didn't think too much about it. When I first pulled it
out of the garage this year, I checked the oil and
again found the land low and water appeared over full.
My thought was, the oil would migrate from the land
trans while driving if the seal were bad because the
forward spin of the gears would force it into the
water trans. Anyone else have experience with this
seal. I think I'll refill again and monitor it for a
while to be sure.
Greg

--- Marc Schlemmer <mschlem@amphicar.net> wrote:
> Greg,
> You can take the cover off the water tranny and get
> to the seal between the
> two transmissions....you do not need to remove the
> transmission. (just
> drain the oil).
> It's not the easiest job, but it isn't too bad. The
> worst part is that it
> is difficult to work in that position!
> Your description, however, seems wrong to me. I'm
> pretty sure that your oil
> levels are backwards for that seal being bad. I
> think the oil in the WATER
> trans will be too low, and the LAND trans will be
> too full. If the seal is
> bad, the oil runs from the water transmission to the
> land transmission.
> Make sure this is correct before you dive into this
> project.
>
> Good Luck,
> Marc Schlemmer.
>
>

 

[a_colo_native]

Sometimes in Harley-Davidsons the porosity of the cast parts will
allow the oil to travel through one case into the next. Several
factors determine which way it will flow. As these Borgward cases are
older cast technology, it is very possible that the oil is flowing
through the case instead of around a questionable seal.

John

 

[David Chapman]

Re: Re: Seal between water and land trans

This seal is a weak point in Amphicar transmissions, it was redesigned a
couple of times. Problem is it gets too hot, later versions had a metal
shield. If it's an early trannie, before number 1500 and without the DWM 67
stamp, then you probably need to change it, talk to Hugh for advice. When it
fails it goes against gravity and the oil level in the water box increases
as the action of the gears in the land box forces it past the defective
seal. If it's really really bad then the oil in the water box drains back
and overfills the land box when cold. You can't tell this by undoing the
bolts to check levels. This is one of the reasons I've been using a dipstick
to check the trannie for more than 10 years and why we came up with the idea
of giving a dipstick to club members last year.

You don't have to remove trannie from car to change seal (in fact it's often
easier not to as you can lock the main shaft easier if it's in car) but
removing the gear wheel on the end of the mainshaft in the water box can be
a real pain, it's an interference fit and needs a really good puller,
sometimes this gear has 2 threaded holes (I think M6) to help pull it but
only use hardened bolts in these, the standard 8.8 grade are not strong
enough and snap. Sometimes the only way is to cut off the original gear with
a Dremel type device and fit a new one.

The case was made in Holland by Hermes, it's good quality and doesn't go
porus but will crack if you drop a trannie off a bench.

David Chapman in the UK

 

[Greg]

Re: Re: Seal between water and land trans

--- David Chapman <david@manbus.com> wrote:
> This seal is a weak point in Amphicar transmissions,
> it was redesigned a......

Thanks for all the advice David. Aside from the
migrating fluid, another reason I suspect the seal is
bad is because when I got the car the double lipped
seals were real bad. Water and oil poured out the top
of the trans first time in water. When discussing axle
issues with Hugh back then he suspected I may have
blown that seal out and he told me to watch for these
problems.
Greg Z.

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