|
|
|
Rust Proofing
- Thread starter Holland
- Start date
Not familiar with this product but it sounds very similar to Waxoil or Eastwood's Rust Encapsulator. Both are a waxy type of protectant. Each claims to be better than the other.
I prefer these types of treatments as they do not dry out and trap water and, just as important, are easily removable. That said, if you search the forums you will find lots of experience with all sorts of miracle treatments ranging from Por-15 to foam and Gluvit (all bad). The general consensus is that rust protection starts with proper treatment of the base metal. If there is ANY oil or residue, these products will often do more harm than good.
The absolute best approach would be to completely strip the metal (chemical or blasting) and then have it hot dip galvanized. Unfortunately, this is costly and there are very few places that can do this work. Second best is to again get down to absolutely clean metal and then use an epoxy primer prior to paint. Just remember that the good two part epoxy primers are very bad for your health and you need to have a respirator that pulls in external air. Once that is all done, then stuff like the wax based treatments is good added protection in areas like inner doors and quarters.
I prefer these types of treatments as they do not dry out and trap water and, just as important, are easily removable. That said, if you search the forums you will find lots of experience with all sorts of miracle treatments ranging from Por-15 to foam and Gluvit (all bad). The general consensus is that rust protection starts with proper treatment of the base metal. If there is ANY oil or residue, these products will often do more harm than good.
The absolute best approach would be to completely strip the metal (chemical or blasting) and then have it hot dip galvanized. Unfortunately, this is costly and there are very few places that can do this work. Second best is to again get down to absolutely clean metal and then use an epoxy primer prior to paint. Just remember that the good two part epoxy primers are very bad for your health and you need to have a respirator that pulls in external air. Once that is all done, then stuff like the wax based treatments is good added protection in areas like inner doors and quarters.
Thanks Mike,
Unfortynately I don't have the uption of opening those areas to resurface them. Do you think these wax products would present a problem if I just went over whatever might be down there?
The risk is that if there is water, oil, flaked paint, etc. that you are trapping the moisture and making things worse. Somewhat of a judgement call depending on current condition.
If you have never restored the rear quarters, and you use her in the water, it is inevitable that you will eventually need to do so. When that time comes you can repair it properly. Until then, I would not lose sleep over it and just enjoy the ride.
If you have never restored the rear quarters, and you use her in the water, it is inevitable that you will eventually need to do so. When that time comes you can repair it properly. Until then, I would not lose sleep over it and just enjoy the ride.
Craig Parada
Craig Parada
A local restorer of Porsches of similar vintage uses Würth (saBesto) "Cavity Protection Spray" for inside rocker panels, door sills, and other places dampness collects. It goes on very thin and viscous (penetrating the smallest opening) and eventually firms up to a waxy goo very similar to what was inside original Amphicar frame rails. It won't last forever, but is a great extra layer of protection that, unlike oil, will not drain away or poison waterways.
I used two cans for everywhere imaginable. I found mine at Goodspeed Motoring http://www.goodspeedmotoring.com/wurth/wurth-cavity-protection-spray.html. It's available elsewhere but note that web searches for "cavity wax" can yield some strange results.
Also - an early version of Würth Stoneguard appears to be what was used for wheelwells and inside Amphicar engine compartments (the old tan color is no longer available). Too bad they didn't use it on the rest of the underside like Mercedes, BMW, Peugeot and others did!
I used two cans for everywhere imaginable. I found mine at Goodspeed Motoring http://www.goodspeedmotoring.com/wurth/wurth-cavity-protection-spray.html. It's available elsewhere but note that web searches for "cavity wax" can yield some strange results.
Also - an early version of Würth Stoneguard appears to be what was used for wheelwells and inside Amphicar engine compartments (the old tan color is no longer available). Too bad they didn't use it on the rest of the underside like Mercedes, BMW, Peugeot and others did!
Eastwood's equivalent comes in either black or tan. It is good stuff.
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-anti-rust-aerosol-with-ext-nozzle-amber.html
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-anti-rust-aerosol-with-ext-nozzle-amber.html
jfriese
Active Member
Mike,
For what it's worth, I've had good luck with Por-15 but it is important to prep the metal reasonably well. My white car had all the original metal battery box parts and the original tray area when I obtained the car 11 years ago. All were rusted but I cleaned them up and coated them with Por-15. I top coated the tray area with colored Epoxy, after coating it with something called Tie bond, so that it matched the rest of the interior coating and coated the actual battery box parts with the black version of Por-15. After 11 years and much water usage, all those areas look like I just coated them. No rust at all.
I'm a bit more guarded about Gluvit but if used as a coating, and not a block of stuff in the rear cavities, I think it's probably OK too. All of these epoxy things are basically a plastic and shrink a bit over the years. When used as a block filler it will break away from the metal and leave you in a worse place than before since moisture will get into the gap but not enough air will get in to dry things out. Also, once you fill those cavities the material will "key" into them and you won't be able to get it out without chopping away the sheet metal. In those rear cavities I would be more inclined to use an expanding foam product and coat the top with some other epoxy coating.
Here in California I don't fill up those cavities but I did fill them with a colored commercial epoxy mastic and then pumped out the excess leaving just a coating throughout the cavity. It has worked well for 11 years now but if I were in an area where the car was subject to rain I would probably fill those cavities with foam and cross my fingers.
John Friese
67 White
67 Red
For what it's worth, I've had good luck with Por-15 but it is important to prep the metal reasonably well. My white car had all the original metal battery box parts and the original tray area when I obtained the car 11 years ago. All were rusted but I cleaned them up and coated them with Por-15. I top coated the tray area with colored Epoxy, after coating it with something called Tie bond, so that it matched the rest of the interior coating and coated the actual battery box parts with the black version of Por-15. After 11 years and much water usage, all those areas look like I just coated them. No rust at all.
I'm a bit more guarded about Gluvit but if used as a coating, and not a block of stuff in the rear cavities, I think it's probably OK too. All of these epoxy things are basically a plastic and shrink a bit over the years. When used as a block filler it will break away from the metal and leave you in a worse place than before since moisture will get into the gap but not enough air will get in to dry things out. Also, once you fill those cavities the material will "key" into them and you won't be able to get it out without chopping away the sheet metal. In those rear cavities I would be more inclined to use an expanding foam product and coat the top with some other epoxy coating.
Here in California I don't fill up those cavities but I did fill them with a colored commercial epoxy mastic and then pumped out the excess leaving just a coating throughout the cavity. It has worked well for 11 years now but if I were in an area where the car was subject to rain I would probably fill those cavities with foam and cross my fingers.
John Friese
67 White
67 Red
Hi John,
Looks great but that unprotected lead acid battery makes me worried! Should charging system boil the battery, lots of acid leak ala Porsche 914 style damage.
Put it in a batery box or better yet go with an Optima or a DieHard spiral cell.
Cheers,
Mike
Looks great but that unprotected lead acid battery makes me worried! Should charging system boil the battery, lots of acid leak ala Porsche 914 style damage.
Put it in a batery box or better yet go with an Optima or a DieHard spiral cell.
Cheers,
Mike
jfriese
Active Member
Mike,
POR-15 claims it isn't bothered by battery acid and for 11 years now it's lasted fine. I have a negative ground, alternator system in the car, note the reversed wires, and that may help with the boiling issue but this battery will vent gases anyway, but they haven't hurt anything yet.
John Friese
67 White
67 Red
POR-15 claims it isn't bothered by battery acid and for 11 years now it's lasted fine. I have a negative ground, alternator system in the car, note the reversed wires, and that may help with the boiling issue but this battery will vent gases anyway, but they haven't hurt anything yet.
John Friese
67 White
67 Red
SNOWBIRD
Amphicar Expert
Never fill those cavitys with foam products.. They Do absorb water and then hold it against the metal,Doomsday!
I instal a small drain plug on the inner bottom of all steel quarters and remove periodicly threw out the year and leave out all winter.
This spring I forgot to put them back in, At the Orillia swim in I went across the whole lake came out and wondered why water was dribbiling from Quarters. As I said Its a small hole so intake of water was slow but was a fair amount. I also spray a waxy type undercoating in hidden areas.
On cars without a drain you can take compressed air and blow water out at end of season.
Note in Johns Pic the original battery trays. I have reproduced these exact! base, box and holdown clamp . I have about 10 in stock.
GORD S>
I instal a small drain plug on the inner bottom of all steel quarters and remove periodicly threw out the year and leave out all winter.
This spring I forgot to put them back in, At the Orillia swim in I went across the whole lake came out and wondered why water was dribbiling from Quarters. As I said Its a small hole so intake of water was slow but was a fair amount. I also spray a waxy type undercoating in hidden areas.
On cars without a drain you can take compressed air and blow water out at end of season.
Note in Johns Pic the original battery trays. I have reproduced these exact! base, box and holdown clamp . I have about 10 in stock.
GORD S>
jfriese
Active Member
Gord,
I don't know how such foam can absorb water since the air bubbles must be closed for the foam to blow up. If you cut the top of the foam off then you would have open cells along the top and that's why I suggested a top coating of epoxy mastic. I haven't done this so I'm not exactly endorsing the idea but it seems like a better idea than many of the things that have been done. Certainly the original Amphicar approach was a failure and I'm not a fan of drilling holes in Amphicar hulls, even if you plug them with screws.
John Friese
67 White
67 Red
I don't know how such foam can absorb water since the air bubbles must be closed for the foam to blow up. If you cut the top of the foam off then you would have open cells along the top and that's why I suggested a top coating of epoxy mastic. I haven't done this so I'm not exactly endorsing the idea but it seems like a better idea than many of the things that have been done. Certainly the original Amphicar approach was a failure and I'm not a fan of drilling holes in Amphicar hulls, even if you plug them with screws.
John Friese
67 White
67 Red
Other than e-coating, there are no really permanent solutions. As noted, metal prep has a lot to do with it. The concern with foam is that it too shrinks as it ages and then may trap water. It seems important that you want to see rust as soon as possible, not hide it.
Also living in the Porsche 914 world, I think everyone should be using a glass mat or spiral cell battery these days. Sears sells a great, gigantic, one. What destroyed many of the 914s was water dripping on battery eventually corroding tray and suspension parts beneath. As an added bonus, glass mat batteries even work submerged!
Also living in the Porsche 914 world, I think everyone should be using a glass mat or spiral cell battery these days. Sears sells a great, gigantic, one. What destroyed many of the 914s was water dripping on battery eventually corroding tray and suspension parts beneath. As an added bonus, glass mat batteries even work submerged!
Similar threads
- ECR Staff
- General Amphicar Discussion
