Rear axle cover replacements ?

jwillia

Member
Does anyone have a good idea for the rear axle covers where the spline shafts go together ? I got some covers that are radiator hose. They don't look like they will work that good.

Thanks Jeff
 

Ed Price

Member
_____

From: jwillia [mailto:]
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 1:22 PM
To: edprice@cox.net
Subject: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20275] Rear axle cover replacements
?


Does anyone have a good idea for the rear axle covers where the spline
shafts go together ? I got some covers that are radiator hose. They don't
look like they will work that good.




This doesn't answer your question, but...... I have been wondering about why
it was necessary to use a flexible belows cover (part 04-20-51) for this
mechanism.

This is a sliding spline joint that allows the swinging arm to always apply
pressure along the axle toward the transmission, thus keeping a load on the
spline plug that inserts into the transmission. If the plug isn't always
loaded, then water can get into the transmission and oil can get out.
Clearly, it's important to maintain a push against that seal. If the sliding
spline joint sticks, then you will open up a big gap when your wheels fall
to full extension when you go into the water.

Putting a belows over the sliding spline shaft and spring sounds like a good
idea; it keeps twigs and sand and muck away from the sliding spline. But the
belows is clamped by compression rings above and below the sliding spline
joint. It seems inevitable that water will get inside the belows (the belows
goes to maximum extension, creating a slight vacuum around the spline joint,
just as you roll into the water!).

Would it be better to not have a belows at all? True, this would greatly
expose the sliding spline, but then it would not have the problems of
retained water and muck after coming ashore. Maybe greasing the joint more
often would be needed.

What do our experts think about the pros & cons of the axle spline joint
boot?

Ed Price
El Cajon, CA USA
61 Rust Guppy
 

azpaul50

Member
Mine came from a Volvo Penta. I had some 4 inch heavy tubing originally and these work much better.

To: azpaul50@hotmail.comSubject: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20275] Rear axle cover replacements ?Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:22:21 -0500From:


Does anyone have a good idea for the rear axle covers where the spline shafts go together ? I got some covers that are radiator hose. They don't look like they will work that good.

_________________________________________________________________
It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008
 

jwillia

Member
I am talking about the other ones that go over the axles not the tunnel boots. I have the volvo penta ones for the tunnel.

Thanks for the reply



To: jeffreyd_7@hotmail.comSubject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20275] Rear axle cover replacements ?Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:51:10 -0500From:


Mine came from a Volvo Penta. I had some 4 inch heavy tubing originally and these work much better. To: azpaul50@hotmail.comSubject: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20275] Rear axle cover replacements ?Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:22:21 -0500From: Does anyone have a good idea for the rear axle covers where the spline shafts go together ? I got some covers that are radiator hose. They don't look like they will work that good.__________________________________________________ _______________It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster.http://windowslive.com/online/hotmai..._broad1_122008
 
Ed, I just removed my axles, I believe*the 3rd style, (the large set) and I found that the bellows held the grease in it to protect the spline from water and the axles had no rust on them under the the bellows.
Larry
White 66 in Ohio




________________________________
From: Ed Price <>
To: larrydepasquale@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 6:48:49 PM
Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20275] Rear axle cover replacements ?


_____

From: jwillia [mailto:]
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 1:22 PM
To: edprice@cox.net
Subject: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20275] Rear axle cover replacements
?


Does anyone have a good idea for the rear axle covers where the spline
shafts go together ? I got some covers that are radiator hose. They don't
look like they will work that good.




This doesn't answer your question, but...... I have been wondering about why
it was necessary to use a flexible belows cover (part 04-20-51) for this
mechanism.

This is a sliding spline joint that allows the swinging arm to always apply
pressure along the axle toward the transmission, thus keeping a load on the
spline plug that inserts into the transmission. If the plug isn't always
loaded, then water can get into the transmission and oil can get out.
Clearly, it's important to maintain a push against that seal. If the sliding
spline joint sticks, then you will open up a big gap when your wheels fall
to full extension when you go into the water.

Putting a belows over the sliding spline shaft and spring sounds like a good
idea; it keeps twigs and sand and muck away from the sliding spline. But the
belows is clamped by compression rings above and below the sliding spline
joint. It seems inevitable that water will get inside the belows (the belows
goes to maximum extension, creating a slight vacuum around the spline joint,
just as you roll into the water!).

Would it be better to not have a belows at all? True, this would greatly
expose the sliding spline, but then it would not have the problems of
retained water and muck after coming ashore. Maybe greasing the joint more
often would be needed.

What do our experts think about the pros & cons of the axle spline joint
boot?

Ed Price
El Cajon, CA USA
61 Rust Guppy
 

DavidC

Amphicar Expert
> Does anyone have a good idea for the rear axle covers where the spline shafts go together ? I got some covers that are radiator hose. They don't look > like they will work that good.

Yes, I don't like those, I think they are too rigid and can cause a vacuum when the car goes in the water and the shafts extend - although Hugh doesn't agree !

What I use are steering rack gaiters that are designed to extend easilly. The sort fitted to the classic Mini work fine but there are some universal ones available that fit better. It depends on the driveshaft version what diameter you want at each end and also how you clamp it. Something like ebay item number 220333007095

With these gaiters you can squeeze them to find out if there is too much grease or water inside.

Running without is an option but not recommended. Grit and extra wear is one issue but the real problem is as soon as you go in the water the grease is washed off the shafts as they extend and the car is sitting in a rainbow coloured oil slick - not good in these environmentally aware days....

David C
 

jwillia

Member
Hi David

Thanks for the reply. I have a 62 and there are no grease zerks, I am going to add the zerks. I was thinking of using hose clamps, but am open to suggestions for clamping. Do you know the manufacturer of the universal ones ? Thanks Jeff



To: jeffreyd_7@hotmail.comSubject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20275] Rear axle cover replacements ?Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:59:26 -0500From:




Quote:




> Does anyone have a good idea for the rear axle covers where the spline shafts go together ? I got some covers that are radiator hose. They don't look > like they will work that good. Yes, I don't like those, I think they are too rigid and can cause a vacuum when the car goes in the water and the shafts extend - although Hugh doesn't agree ! What I use are steering rack gaiters that are designed to extend easilly. The sort fitted to the classic Mini work fine but there are some universal ones available that fit better. It depends on the driveshaft version what diameter you want at each end and also how you clamp it. Something like ebay item number 220333007095 With these gaiters you can squeeze them to find out if there is too much grease or water inside. Running without is an option but not recommended. Grit and extra wear is one issue but the real problem is as soon as you go in the water the grease is washed off the shafts as they extend and the car is sitting in a rainbow coloured oil slick - not good in these environmentally aware days....David C
 
David, Good point on the water color due to the grease, I didn't think of that. The original material that was on my axles was a hard plastic that was cracked and broken. It took a little effort to cut it and remove it. Hugh's*product is*a softer rubber that I am installing, but do you think a standard stainless hose clamp on each end of this boot will cause any balance/ vibration*issues?* The original clamps*had a crimped connector, but I don't have a crimping tool.*
Larry
White*66 in Ohio
Happy New Year to our friends in the UK*




________________________________
From: DavidC <>
To: larrydepasquale@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:59:26 AM
Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20275] Rear axle cover replacements ?


Quote:

> Does anyone have a good idea for the rear axle covers where the spline shafts go together ? I got some covers that are radiator hose. They don't look > like they will work that good. Yes, I don't like those, I think they are too rigid and can cause a vacuum when the car goes in the water and the shafts extend - although Hugh doesn't agree !

What I use are steering rack gaiters that are designed to extend easilly. The sort fitted to the classic Mini work fine but there are some universal ones available that fit better. It depends on the driveshaft version what diameter you want at each end and also how you clamp it. Something like ebay item number 220333007095

With these gaiters you can squeeze them to find out if there is too much grease or water inside.

Running without is an option but not recommended. Grit and extra wear is one issue but the real problem is as soon as you go in the water the grease is washed off the shafts as they extend and the car is sitting in a rainbow coloured oil slick - not good in these environmentally aware days....

David C
 

DavidC

Amphicar Expert
Jeff,
oreillyauto.com
Then search for 614-020
That's what I use.

I don't use metal clamps. A couple of good quality tywraps each end does the job.

David C

----- Original Message -----
From: jwillia
To: david@manbus.com
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 4:22 PM
Subject: SPAM-LOW: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20275] Rear axle cover replacements ?


Hi David

Thanks for the reply. I have a 62 and there are no grease zerks, I am going to add the zerks. I was thinking of using hose clamps, but am open to suggestions for clamping. Do you know the manufacturer of the universal ones ? Thanks Jeff



To: jeffreyd_7@hotmail.comSubject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20275] Rear axle cover replacements ?Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:59:26 -0500From:




Quote:





Quote:
> Does anyone have a good idea for the rear axle covers where the spline shafts go together ? I got some covers that are radiator hose. They don't look > like they will work that good. Yes, I don't like those, I think they are too rigid and can cause a vacuum when the car goes in the water and the shafts extend - although Hugh doesn't agree ! What I use are steering rack gaiters that are designed to extend easilly. The sort fitted to the classic Mini work fine but there are some universal ones available that fit better. It depends on the driveshaft version what diameter you want at each end and also how you clamp it. Something like ebay item number 220333007095 With these gaiters you can squeeze them to find out if there is too much grease or water inside. Running without is an option but not recommended. Grit and extra wear is one issue but the real problem is as soon as you go in the water the grease is washed off the shafts as they extend and the car is sitting in a rainbow coloured oil slick - not good in these environmentally aware days....David C
 

DavidC

Amphicar Expert
> do you think a standard stainless hose clamp on each end of this boot will
> cause any balance/ vibration*issues

I don't think so as it's so small in relation to the mass of the shaft but I
started using tywraps because that's what is used on most modern cars and
they often come with that universal boot. I did have some smaller and
lighter stainless clamps once, about half the thickness and the screw bit
was much smaller but I haven't any left and not seen them for sale anywhere.
I think they came from the Concord list *

Re the UK, 2009 is the year for anyone from the USA to visit, don't think
the exchange rate will get any better than it is at the moment !

David C

* When production of Concord stopped almost 20 years ago British Airways
sold off a lot of parts cheap and a scrap dealer produced a "Concord list"
The stuff was incredibly high quality and mostly a very high grade stainless
but there were some unusual sizes - like threaded 6.5mm bolts and wierd
clamps and clips. Quite a few bits ended up on my Amphicar.

The correct spelling of Concord is without the e on the end - unless you are
French ! Well worth reading the story if you are interested in what was
going on at the end of the Sixties when all the good stuff was being
developed, designed and built, Concord, 747, ColourTV, Moon Landings,
Computer Mouse, Internet, Amphicar.
 

jwillia

Member
Thanks Dave

Those look much more suitable.

Jeff W



To: jeffreyd_7@hotmail.comSubject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20275] Rear axle cover replacements ?Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:08:56 -0500From:


Jeff, oreillyauto.com Then search for 614-020That's what I use. I don't use metal clamps. A couple of good quality tywraps each end does the job. David C----- Original Message ----- From: jwillia To: david@manbus.com Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 4:22 PMSubject: SPAM-LOW: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20275] Rear axle cover replacements ?Hi DavidThanks for the reply. I have a 62 and there are no grease zerks, I am going to add the zerks. I was thinking of using hose clamps, but am open to suggestions for clamping. Do you know the manufacturer of the universal ones ? Thanks JeffTo: jeffreyd_7@hotmail.comSubject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20275] Rear axle cover replacements ?Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:59:26 -0500From: Quote:Quote:> Does anyone have a good idea for the rear axle covers where the spline shafts go together ? I got some covers that are radiator hose. They don't look > like they will work that good. Yes, I don't like those, I think they are too rigid and can cause a vacuum when the car goes in the water and the shafts extend - although Hugh doesn't agree ! What I use are steering rack gaiters that are designed to extend easilly. The sort fitted to the classic Mini work fine but there are some universal ones available that fit better. It depends on the driveshaft version what diameter you want at each end and also how you clamp it. Something like ebay item number 220333007095 With these gaiters you can squeeze them to find out if there is too much grease or water inside. Running without is an option but not recommended. Grit and extra wear is one issue but the real problem is as soon as you go in the water the grease is washed off the shafts as they extend and the car is sitting in a rainbow coloured oil slick - not good in these environmentally aware days....David C
 

Tommy in Tampa

Amphicar Expert
Yepper Mr. C is right. I use the same steering rack gaiters. Although I don't think they will know what you are asking for at the red neck Four Wheel drive place. Steering Rack Boots or shock extension boots will work.
I don't use any lower clamp. I never think you can get a watertight seal that will stand the test of time. So I clamp them at the top only and allow the water to escape and dry out.
I think the lower clamps only traps the water and that water can stay in there a lot longer than a year. There is just no way for it to dry. I have never removed a dry drive shaft with clamps on both ends.
Swim safe and may all your days be Amphicar days. Tommy in Tampa
 
David, Thanks, the tywraps sound like a brilliant way to do secure them. I would like to make the trip over, but I am booked on several trips already.* *
Larry*




________________________________
From: DavidC <>
To: larrydepasquale@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:29:46 PM
Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20275] Rear axle cover replacements ?


Quote:

> do you think a standard stainless hose clamp on each end of this boot will
> cause any balance/ vibration*issues I don't think so as it's so small in relation to the mass of the shaft but I
started using tywraps because that's what is used on most modern cars and
they often come with that universal boot. I did have some smaller and
lighter stainless clamps once, about half the thickness and the screw bit
was much smaller but I haven't any left and not seen them for sale anywhere.
I think they came from the Concord list *

Re the UK, 2009 is the year for anyone from the USA to visit, don't think
the exchange rate will get any better than it is at the moment !

David C

* When production of Concord stopped almost 20 years ago British Airways
sold off a lot of parts cheap and a scrap dealer produced a "Concord list"
The stuff was incredibly high quality and mostly a very high grade stainless
but there were some unusual sizes - like threaded 6.5mm bolts and wierd
clamps and clips. Quite a few bits ended up on my Amphicar.

The correct spelling of Concord is without the e on the end - unless you are
French ! Well worth reading the story if you are interested in what was
going on at the end of the Sixties when all the good stuff was being
developed, designed and built, Concord, 747, ColourTV, Moon Landings,
Computer Mouse, Internet, Amphicar.
 

Ed Price

Member
_____

From: Larry DePasquale [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:19 PM
To: edprice@cox.net
Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20275] Rear axle cover
replacements ?


David, Thanks, the tywraps sound like a brilliant way to do secure them.
Larry*




Dave's tip about using tywraps for the elastomer covers on the axle slip
joints makes me want to point something out. I'm not challenging Dave's
advice, but consider those tywraps. A tywrap is a fastener that uses a
little pawl against a ramp to lock the wrap when you tension it down. But,
if you put a tywrap on an inelastic object, like a metal pipe, you can only
pull the wrap until it's tight, and then the little pawls locks as the strap
actually releases a bit of its tension. The tywrap has no inherent stretch
or springiness, so it doesn't maintain a tight grip.

The way Dave is using the tywraps, he is depending on the compressive
resilience of the boot itself. This is fairly limited, so I would wonder how
this fastener system works out in the long run. A worm-screw compression
band clamp could, at least, be tightened much better than a tywrap, but it
still would be working against the compression of the boot too. It seems to
me that this application really calls for a true spring clip.

Ed Price
El Cajon, CA USA
61 Rust Guppy
 

DavidC

Amphicar Expert
Ed, you are right about the tywraps and that was my concern - but the replacement boots that come with the tywraps have a fair bit of elastic in the boot ends, also the tywraps had more than the normal "teeth per inch" and they do work well, no signs of leaks - current set has been on my car for more than 5 years - however the boots will need changing before too long as the rubber is starting to split in the bellows area. These replacement boots stretch well, they are designed for steering racks, but the axle movement is such that they are compressed as well as stretched, be aware that when fitting them off the car you want them stretched as much as possible to allow for that.

I probably would however use a stainless band if I could find a suitable small one, especially on the earlier driveshafts which don't have a location groove for the boot making it more likely to slip off.

David C

ps - Tommy, thanks for pointing out that they are not called gaiters in the US - I still trip over these language difference sometimes - had to explain to someone just this morning that "bowl" is not a popular second name in the States and the reason so many Americans have been to see "Rose Bowl" in the last few days is because it's a sporting event !
 
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