Propellor shields

E

Ed Price

Guest
Would anyone like to comment about the value of the propeller "shields" that
were designed into the earlier cars? My Amphi is a 67, but it has the shields. I
am getting ready to start on extensive quarter-panel rust repair, but I was
surprised to see that the propeller shields are in nearly perfect shape. I
wonder, if you are already doing extensive work next to the shields, would it be
a good idea to delete the shields?

Yes, the shields do provide some extra protection for the props. Maybe the
shields prevent cavitation by lessening the amount of air sucked into the
propwash from under the wheel well. And maybe the shields form a partial "ducted
fan" shroud around the propellers, increasing prop efficiency. Does anyone know
if shield-equipped cars have less torque effect on steering? And, do the shields
help you reverse more straightly?

OTOH, I haven't seen anyone complain about damages due to lack of prop shields.
Maybe the shields are just one more heavy chunk of metal waiting to vibrate
and/or rust! Should I schedule a bilateral shieldectomy?

Ed



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
B

Bill Connelly

Guest
Regarding the prop shields matter brought up by Ed below, for the benefit of
those owners who may never seen them (If that's the case, then you really
SHOULD get to Celina one of these years, you know...So, how 'bout THIS
year?), prop shields are a pair of metal "fins", also sometimes called
"vanes," that hang down just "outboard" of the props, fixed between the
props and the quarterpanels along the sloping flange of the hull, and
typically found only on "early model" Amphicars, ones that were typically
sold and titled between 1961 and 1964 (Though one should note that the title
date and even the year stamped into the VIN plate is more often a reflection
of when it moved off the lot than any actual date of manufacture...Witness
Gord Souter's "1964" with a VIN of 100062 that ostensibly was a 1964 model,
when in fact it was probably the 62nd Amphicar ever produced...about four
years earlier!). As a rule of thumb, one can spot early model Amphicars
from the lack of a lip along the bottom of the quarterpanels (except when
there have been subsequent lip-less panel replacements on later model Amphis
owing to a lack of "lipped" patch panels having been available), but one can
ALWAYS spot an early model Amphicar if they have those inner prop shields.

From what I've heard at past Swim-Ins, these shields may have been
originally designed to help keep debris away from the props, when in fact
they were found in practice to have exactly the opposite effect, since they
afforded every piece of flotsam and jetsam in the river an excellent place
to get jammed onto and into. Nobody I have talked with about them has ever
mentioned the prop shields having been intended for or resulting in better
handling in the water, and I certainly noticed no difference whatsoever the
one afternoon I was "at the helm" of a borrowed Amphi that did have prop
shields (though it should be admitted that it wasn't like I set up buoys for
a controlled manueverability test, or anything). Suffice it to say that
these shields soon disappeared from the breed, even in some later "early
model" Amphicars.

One reason I believe that their disappearance was not merely some sort of a
"cost saving measure," an otherwise likely case of just shaving a few bucks
from the production costs, was something I spotted when I went last year on
Dave the Wave's behalf to inspect an Amphicar not far from where I live,
which he subsequently bought and revived. It was definitely an
"intermediate" model Amphi--a true unrestored fjord green "missing
link"--with a whole mix of early and later model features. Just for the
record, its VIN tag's "Year of production" area was blank, but it was
stamped "Chassis-No 106 521 982". It had a smaller brass screw-in type
bilge plug and the heater under the gas tank like an early model Amphi, but
had raised lips on the quarterpanels and a black mottled dash like a later
model. And it was clear, compared with my own definite later model's smooth
flange on the hull near the props, that the factory had actually REMOVED
those prop shields with a sawz-all or something right at the factory on this
"missing link". Otherwise, the car showed absolutely NO signs of even the
least repair or restoration....I mean, the factory chalk marks were still on
the fiberboard rear passenger seat support, and it even had an original
mushroomy factory oil filter! What this all indicates is that not only did
they stop putting on the prop shields at the factory, but here they even
went so far as to remove ones they'd already mounted, so they must have been
a known source of problems.

For more info on the various features found in the Amphicar during its
production life, one should certainly refer to Marc Schlemmer's chart at
http://www.amphicar.net/amphi/vin.html , and folks should certainly make a
point of submitting their own Amphi's details there if only for the sake of
having an even broader sampling. There's also lots more info on propeller
shields and other production run features and changes to be found in this
List's Archive at http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html

As for that fjord green "missing link" that Dave revived and sold, if the
new owner, whoever he or she may be, would care to have a few dozen nicely
detailed digital pix of that Amphi exactly as it was found in a barn in
Virginia, including the barn, I would be very happy to email you the whole
series (about 10 Megabytes). Just drop me a line "off-list."

~Bilgey~

====================

Would anyone like to comment about the value of the propeller "shields" that
were designed into the earlier cars? My Amphi is a 67, but it has the
shields. I am getting ready to start on extensive quarter-panel rust repair,
but I was surprised to see that the propeller shields are in nearly perfect
shape. I wonder, if you are already doing extensive work next to the
shields, would it be a good idea to delete the shields?

Yes, the shields do provide some extra protection for the props. Maybe the
shields prevent cavitation by lessening the amount of air sucked into the
propwash from under the wheel well. And maybe the shields form a partial
"ducted fan" shroud around the propellers, increasing prop efficiency. Does
anyone know if shield-equipped cars have less torque effect on steering?
And, do the shields help you reverse more straightly?

OTOH, I haven't seen anyone complain about damages due to lack of prop
shields. Maybe the shields are just one more heavy chunk of metal waiting to
vibrate and/or rust! Should I schedule a bilateral shieldectomy?

Ed
 
J

jfriese

Guest
Bill,
I have another one of those "missing link" cars. Even though it's
titled 1967, I knew it was somewhat earlier by it's smaller bilge
plug, 4" tunnels, round speaker hole and early stle heater. It has
the black dash, chrome and raised lips and, since the original tunnels
had rust problems, it now has 6" tunnels. It also has the remnants of
the braces for those prop shields still welded to the underside of the
trunk floor and you can clearly see that the shields had been chopped
off of the car at some time. I can't say for sure who did the
chopping, though, or when.

John Friese


--- In amphicar-lovers@y..., "Bill Connelly" <billiam@e...> wrote:
> Regarding the prop shields matter brought up by Ed below, for the
benefit of
> those owners who may never seen them (If that's the case, then you
really
> SHOULD get to Celina one of these years, you know...So, how 'bout
THIS
> year?), prop shields are a pair of metal "fins", also sometimes
called
> "vanes," that hang down just "outboard" of the props, fixed between
the
> props and the quarterpanels along the sloping flange of the hull,
and
> typically found only on "early model" Amphicars, ones that were
typically
> sold and titled between 1961 and 1964 (Though one should note that
the title
> date and even the year stamped into the VIN plate is more often a
reflection
> of when it moved off the lot than any actual date of
manufacture...Witness
> Gord Souter's "1964" with a VIN of 100062 that ostensibly was a 1964
model,
> when in fact it was probably the 62nd Amphicar ever produced...about
four
> years earlier!). As a rule of thumb, one can spot early model
Amphicars
> from the lack of a lip along the bottom of the quarterpanels (except
when
> there have been subsequent lip-less panel replacements on later
model Amphis
> owing to a lack of "lipped" patch panels having been available), but
one can
> ALWAYS spot an early model Amphicar if they have those inner prop
shields.
>
> From what I've heard at past Swim-Ins, these shields may have been
> originally designed to help keep debris away from the props, when in
fact
> they were found in practice to have exactly the opposite effect,
since they
> afforded every piece of flotsam and jetsam in the river an excellent
place
> to get jammed onto and into. Nobody I have talked with about them
has ever
> mentioned the prop shields having been intended for or resulting in
better
> handling in the water, and I certainly noticed no difference
whatsoever the
> one afternoon I was "at the helm" of a borrowed Amphi that did have
prop
> shields (though it should be admitted that it wasn't like I set up
buoys for
> a controlled manueverability test, or anything). Suffice it to say
that
> these shields soon disappeared from the breed, even in some later
"early
> model" Amphicars.
>
> One reason I believe that their disappearance was not merely some
sort of a
> "cost saving measure," an otherwise likely case of just shaving a
few bucks
> from the production costs, was something I spotted when I went last
year on
> Dave the Wave's behalf to inspect an Amphicar not far from where I
live,
> which he subsequently bought and revived. It was definitely an
> "intermediate" model Amphi--a true unrestored fjord green "missing
> link"--with a whole mix of early and later model features. Just for
the
> record, its VIN tag's "Year of production" area was blank, but it
was
> stamped "Chassis-No 106 521 982". It had a smaller brass screw-in
type
> bilge plug and the heater under the gas tank like an early model
Amphi, but
> had raised lips on the quarterpanels and a black mottled dash like a
later
> model. And it was clear, compared with my own definite later
model's smooth
> flange on the hull near the props, that the factory had actually
REMOVED
> those prop shields with a sawz-all or something right at the factory
on this
> "missing link". Otherwise, the car showed absolutely NO signs of
even the
> least repair or restoration....I mean, the factory chalk marks were
still on
> the fiberboard rear passenger seat support, and it even had an
original
> mushroomy factory oil filter! What this all indicates is that not
only did
> they stop putting on the prop shields at the factory, but here they
even
> went so far as to remove ones they'd already mounted, so they must
have been
> a known source of problems.
>
> For more info on the various features found in the Amphicar during
its
> production life, one should certainly refer to Marc Schlemmer's
chart at
> http://www.amphicar.net/amphi/vin.html , and folks should certainly
make a
> point of submitting their own Amphi's details there if only for the
sake of
> having an even broader sampling. There's also lots more info on
propeller
> shields and other production run features and changes to be found in
this
> List's Archive at
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
>
> As for that fjord green "missing link" that Dave revived and sold,
if the
> new owner, whoever he or she may be, would care to have a few dozen
nicely
> detailed digital pix of that Amphi exactly as it was found in a barn
in
> Virginia, including the barn, I would be very happy to email you the
whole
> series (about 10 Megabytes). Just drop me a line "off-list."
>
> ~Bilgey~
>
> ====================
>
> Would anyone like to comment about the value of the propeller
"shields" that
> were designed into the earlier cars? My Amphi is a 67, but it has
the
> shields. I am getting ready to start on extensive quarter-panel rust
repair,
> but I was surprised to see that the propeller shields are in nearly
perfect
> shape. I wonder, if you are already doing extensive work next to the
> shields, would it be a good idea to delete the shields?
>
> Yes, the shields do provide some extra protection for the props.
Maybe the
> shields prevent cavitation by lessening the amount of air sucked
into the
> propwash from under the wheel well. And maybe the shields form a
partial
> "ducted fan" shroud around the propellers, increasing prop
efficiency. Does
> anyone know if shield-equipped cars have less torque effect on
steering?
> And, do the shields help you reverse more straightly?
>
> OTOH, I haven't seen anyone complain about damages due to lack of
prop
> shields. Maybe the shields are just one more heavy chunk of metal
waiting to
> vibrate and/or rust! Should I schedule a bilateral shieldectomy?
>
> Ed
 
T

tommyintpa@aol.com

Guest
In a message dated 7/8/02 6:51:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, edprice@cox.net
writes:


> The propeller shields are a pair of vanes, one mounted just outboard of each
> propeller. They stick down a bit lower than the prop.
>
> My car has them (a feature of early production). But I just measured the
> clearance between the prop tip and the shield. There's only about 3/8"
> clearance!! No wonder they trap debris rather than shield the props. I
> think this answers my question about the utility of these shields. My plans
> now include complete removal of the two shields.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>

Hi Ed, I was wondering, do the shields trap debris? It seems that they would
but do they? We are lucky enough to have three Amphis none have the shields
but if one did there is no way I would remove them unless it was a real
problem. You can't put them back on and do you want to remove something that
very few Amphis have. I would carry a spare prop or two to be safe but please
think before you cut.
Tommy in Tampa

I will have six good used props at the "yard sail" in Celina


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
E

Ed Price

Guest
The propeller shields are a pair of vanes, one mounted just outboard of each
propeller. They stick down a bit lower than the prop.

My car has them (a feature of early production). But I just measured the
clearance between the prop tip and the shield. There's only about 3/8"
clearance!! No wonder they trap debris rather than shield the props. I think
this answers my question about the utility of these shields. My plans now
include complete removal of the two shields.

Ed



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
E

Ed Price

Guest
----- Original Message -----
From: nelson625@aol.com
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Re: Wanted - Propeller (aluminum keys)


Allen-
This is probably a dumb question, but these"shields" to which you
refer on "you wife's car." are they an add on item, or standard on certain
years.
If standard, which years had them - the later years - maybe 1966-67? People
are always asking, of course, like they ask every one of us owners, how fast
will it go in the water. I generally say about 6-10 mph, but that is purely an
educated guess. You seem to have quantified it much better by utilizing a GPS.
I guess as a generalization, 6-10 is in the range. I tell people it is a
compromise vehicle - neither a great boat nor a perfect car, but a heck of a
lot of
fun. As I say and we all know, you need to exercise caution in the water,
because if you are about to collide with another craft or a sea wall or
whatever,
it is pretty difficult to run forward on the deck and use a bumper or fend
off manually! It is not quite like a normal boat - so what else is new?
Better
to be cautious and sensible and plan ahead.
Vic "Splash" Nelson

Vic:

Somewhere along the way, the term "propeller shields" got applied to a structure
on the bottom of the Amphi's hull. Search the archive for "propeller shields",
as this has already been covered pretty well.

Early Amphi's had them, later one's don't. There is evidence that some Amphi's
had shields factory removed during construction. And some Amphis lost their
shields during restorations.

The shields are a flat panel that extends downward from the hull, starting a
little before the propeller shaft hull penetration, and extending aft to
slightly beyond the propeller. They were located outboard of the propeller on
each side. If you viewed an Amphi from the side, the shield would completely
hide the propeller shaft and propeller from view.

As for what they do; therein lies the controversy. If you run over a large
object, like a board, the shield will act to keep it away from the prop. OTOH,
the clearance between the prop tips and the shield invites damage from smaller
objects. No, I don't think they were supposed to be shields.

Some say they were for directional stability, but there doesn't seem to be any
difference in steering between Amphis that have and don't have the shields.

My opinion is that the shields were designed to improve water flow past the
props. The aft hull area, with features like a quickly curving profile (?), two
propellers close together, and a big wheel and wheelwell next to the prop,
simply invites turbulent flow. I think the shields were put there to reduce the
prop pulling air (just recently had a poster give that condition a name:
ventilation). Some time, someone should compare the amount of wake bubbles for a
shields Amphi versus a shieldless Amphi.

Maybe it was a good idea that didn't really work. For whatever reason, the
factory decided shields were not worth the effort, and the shields were
eliminated. My Amphi is legally a 1967, but it has the shields. From other
features also, I have to conclude that my Amphi is more likely a 1962 or so
model. (Where it was for 5 years might make a good story.)


Ed
El Cajon
67 Rust Guppy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
W

Wayne A. Miller

Guest
Re: Re: Propellor Shields

My first Amphi, 1967 turned out to have smaller axle U-joints thatn #2, a
1965. It also had no grease zerks on the emergency brake cables and the
small heater fan. The "65 was improved in all these areas.

I had the theory that a whole bunch were built and packed into a narrow
warehouse.

Thus, when they took them out for delivery, the last shall be first and the
first shall be last.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Price" <edprice@cox.net>
To: <amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 4:01 AM
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] Re: Propellor Shields


>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: nelson625@aol.com
> To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Re: Wanted - Propeller (aluminum keys)
>
>
> Allen-
> This is probably a dumb question, but these"shields" to which you
> refer on "you wife's car." are they an add on item, or standard on
certain years.
> If standard, which years had them - the later years - maybe 1966-67?
People
> are always asking, of course, like they ask every one of us owners, how
fast
> will it go in the water. I generally say about 6-10 mph, but that is
purely an
> educated guess. You seem to have quantified it much better by utilizing
a GPS.
> I guess as a generalization, 6-10 is in the range. I tell people it is a
> compromise vehicle - neither a great boat nor a perfect car, but a heck
of a lot of
> fun. As I say and we all know, you need to exercise caution in the
water,
> because if you are about to collide with another craft or a sea wall or
whatever,
> it is pretty difficult to run forward on the deck and use a bumper or
fend
> off manually! It is not quite like a normal boat - so what else is new?
Better
> to be cautious and sensible and plan ahead.
> Vic "Splash" Nelson
>
> Vic:
>
> Somewhere along the way, the term "propeller shields" got applied to a
structure on the bottom of the Amphi's hull. Search the archive for
"propeller shields", as this has already been covered pretty well.
>
> Early Amphi's had them, later one's don't. There is evidence that some
Amphi's had shields factory removed during construction. And some Amphis
lost their shields during restorations.
>
> The shields are a flat panel that extends downward from the hull, starting
a little before the propeller shaft hull penetration, and extending aft to
slightly beyond the propeller. They were located outboard of the propeller
on each side. If you viewed an Amphi from the side, the shield would
completely hide the propeller shaft and propeller from view.
>
> As for what they do; therein lies the controversy. If you run over a large
object, like a board, the shield will act to keep it away from the prop.
OTOH, the clearance between the prop tips and the shield invites damage from
smaller objects. No, I don't think they were supposed to be shields.
>
> Some say they were for directional stability, but there doesn't seem to be
any difference in steering between Amphis that have and don't have the
shields.
>
> My opinion is that the shields were designed to improve water flow past
the props. The aft hull area, with features like a quickly curving profile
(?), two propellers close together, and a big wheel and wheelwell next to
the prop, simply invites turbulent flow. I think the shields were put there
to reduce the prop pulling air (just recently had a poster give that
condition a name: ventilation). Some time, someone should compare the amount
of wake bubbles for a shields Amphi versus a shieldless Amphi.
>
> Maybe it was a good idea that didn't really work. For whatever reason, the
factory decided shields were not worth the effort, and the shields were
eliminated. My Amphi is legally a 1967, but it has the shields. From other
features also, I have to conclude that my Amphi is more likely a 1962 or so
model. (Where it was for 5 years might make a good story.)
>
>
> Ed
> El Cajon
> 67 Rust Guppy
>
>
 

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