Problem with HP muffler on early cars

K

Ken Chambers

Guest
I received the High Performance Muffler Kit (8-28-01HP KIT) today along with
the HP Exhaust Pipe (8-28-02HP). The muffler is constructed of heavy gauge
steel and appears well built. Hugh tells me they are European in design and
manufacture. The tail pipe and engine manifold "J" pipe are locally fabricated
- and that's where the problem begins. While there is nothing wrong with the
quality of the pipes, there is in the design of the "J" pipe when used on early
cars.

It turns out the bottom of the "J" pipe just contacts the hull near the prop
mounting. I recently installed Hugh's heavy duty engine mounts along with new
transmission mounts. The engine is sitting quite high, high enough that the
center of the engine drain plug is about 1/4 inch above the center of the bilge
hole.

I spoke with Hugh at great length about this today and he is baffled since he
has sold a number of them and I'm the first to mention a problem. There should
be about 1 inch of clearance between the pipe and the hull. He confirmed that
the pipe I received is properly constructed. (Holding a carpenter's square
across the mounting flange, go out, then 90 degrees down to the lowermost point
of the bend should be 6.5 inches.) After much discussion, we settled down to
the theory that cars with serial numbers 100xxx - believe it or not - have a
slightly different hull stamping than later cars. Hugh offered other evidence,
as well, to support this theory. It may be that cars with the underside fins
are the ones with the different hulls. Some fins were later removed by the
factory but a telltale ridge was left remaining. This is still just a theory
at this point but Hugh will be checking various model year cars at Celina. So
don't be alarmed if you see some guy fondling your Amphi's "J" pipe.

I checked my other cars and they all appear the same. My fleet are truly
sister cars, all most probably having been on the assembly floor at the same
time. All the serial numbers are very close.

There's a comparison list out there somewhere. Could someone check serial
numbers vs. underside fins. Also, has anyone else installed, or tried to
install, this High Performance muffler kit and run into a clearance problem,
especially on the early cars?

The solution to this problem is quite simple. During fabrication, the "J"
pipes just need to be located further up into the mounting flange another inch
or so before welding. That will provide an inch of clearance on the early cars
and about 2 inches on later ones.

Despite the apparent high quality of the muffler itself, it's not a quick
installation process. Then again, when was exhaust system work ever easy on
any car? It would be nice, however, if the required muffler clamps were
included, as well as the additional brackets that must be fabricated to attach
to the engine mounted muffler brackets. (The instructions call for a 36 inch
length of 1/8 x 3/4 bar stock to make your own brackets). A new exhaust
manifold gasket will also be needed (8-28-10) along with the three special
exhaust nuts (1-01-15).

And a tip for removing the old exhaust nuts. While the instructions recommend
removing the exhaust manifold and cutting off the old nuts, it's much easier to
heat the nuts in place with a welding torch. They'll come off easily. Of
course, you'll need to be extremely careful with that torch in the engine
compartment. Keep a fire extinguisher or water hose at close reach. Chase the
threads afterwards on the three studs with a 5/16-24 die. Use plenty of
anti-seize thread compound when installing the new nuts. You'll be very
thankful the next time you to remove them.

Ken Chambers, CA
'64 Amphi (3)
 
M

Mike Echemann

Guest
Ken:
Recently I installed one of these systems from Hugh. My serial number is
101688 on my 64 green car and I had no problem installing it. The car has
the lower fins also or prop shields. I just checked it and the clearance is
only about a quarter of an inch below the bottom of the J. When I put it on
I remember being concerned at first that it was to tight a fit and had to
wedge it in place but this was because I was installing it with the manifold
as one piece. The car has the original engine mounts but does have new
Trans mounts.

Could it be that the pipe when welded on the flange was angled to much
towards the rear of the car. Just a hair off there would take your
clearance away quick. You should like the system once installed. It's nice
and quite.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Chambers" <kenneth3@concentric.net>
To: <amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 7:17 AM
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] Problem with HP muffler on early cars


> I received the High Performance Muffler Kit (8-28-01HP KIT) today along
with
> the HP Exhaust Pipe (8-28-02HP). The muffler is constructed of heavy
gauge
> steel and appears well built. Hugh tells me they are European in design
and
> manufacture. The tail pipe and engine manifold "J" pipe are locally
fabricated
> - and that's where the problem begins. While there is nothing wrong with
the
> quality of the pipes, there is in the design of the "J" pipe when used on
early
> cars.
>
> It turns out the bottom of the "J" pipe just contacts the hull near the
prop
> mounting. I recently installed Hugh's heavy duty engine mounts along with
new
> transmission mounts. The engine is sitting quite high, high enough that
the
> center of the engine drain plug is about 1/4 inch above the center of the
bilge
> hole.
>
> I spoke with Hugh at great length about this today and he is baffled since
he
> has sold a number of them and I'm the first to mention a problem. There
should
> be about 1 inch of clearance between the pipe and the hull. He confirmed
that
> the pipe I received is properly constructed. (Holding a carpenter's
square
> across the mounting flange, go out, then 90 degrees down to the lowermost
point
> of the bend should be 6.5 inches.) After much discussion, we settled down
to
> the theory that cars with serial numbers 100xxx - believe it or not - have
a
> slightly different hull stamping than later cars. Hugh offered other
evidence,
> as well, to support this theory. It may be that cars with the underside
fins
> are the ones with the different hulls. Some fins were later removed by
the
> factory but a telltale ridge was left remaining. This is still just a
theory
> at this point but Hugh will be checking various model year cars at Celina.
So
> don't be alarmed if you see some guy fondling your Amphi's "J" pipe.
>
> I checked my other cars and they all appear the same. My fleet are truly
> sister cars, all most probably having been on the assembly floor at the
same
> time. All the serial numbers are very close.
>
> There's a comparison list out there somewhere. Could someone check serial
> numbers vs. underside fins. Also, has anyone else installed, or tried to
> install, this High Performance muffler kit and run into a clearance
problem,
> especially on the early cars?
>
> The solution to this problem is quite simple. During fabrication, the "J"
> pipes just need to be located further up into the mounting flange another
inch
> or so before welding. That will provide an inch of clearance on the early
cars
> and about 2 inches on later ones.
>
> Despite the apparent high quality of the muffler itself, it's not a quick
> installation process. Then again, when was exhaust system work ever easy
on
> any car? It would be nice, however, if the required muffler clamps were
> included, as well as the additional brackets that must be fabricated to
attach
> to the engine mounted muffler brackets. (The instructions call for a 36
inch
> length of 1/8 x 3/4 bar stock to make your own brackets). A new exhaust
> manifold gasket will also be needed (8-28-10) along with the three special
> exhaust nuts (1-01-15).
>
> And a tip for removing the old exhaust nuts. While the instructions
recommend
> removing the exhaust manifold and cutting off the old nuts, it's much
easier to
> heat the nuts in place with a welding torch. They'll come off easily. Of
> course, you'll need to be extremely careful with that torch in the engine
> compartment. Keep a fire extinguisher or water hose at close reach.
Chase the
> threads afterwards on the three studs with a 5/16-24 die. Use plenty of
> anti-seize thread compound when installing the new nuts. You'll be very
> thankful the next time you to remove them.
>
> Ken Chambers, CA
> '64 Amphi (3)
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
 
E

Eric Mattlin

Guest
Ken;

My car is 100116. We can check it while you're here on Saturday.
I've been considering a new muffler ... sounds like mine would have
the same problem as yours. It's titles as a 62. Has the early
transmission, no lips, single piece front bumper, no bilge blower and
the rear fins.

Eric
 
K

Ken Chambers

Guest
Just a follow-up on Hugh's new High Performance muffler. Looking at a few
responses, it's safe to say the early cars have insufficient clearance at the
bottom of this new "J" pipe. Therefore, it's not recommended to be used on
the early cars without first modifying the pipe. It also affects more than
the 100xxx numbers. There's a report of a 1016xx car having small clearance
as well.
Hugh had a couple hundred of these pipes made and says the manufacturer uses a
fixture to align the parts before welding. We're pretty sure the tolerances
are very close from one pipe to the next. The pipe apparently has about an
inch of clearance on later cars.

I cut the pipe off at the mounting flange, bored out the flange and rewelded
the pipe so it's an inch higher. I built a simple fixture to make sure the
pipe was just raised, not misaligned in any other way. The pipe, muffler and
exhaust pipe all still fit nicely. I see no reason why that mod wouldn't work
so one pipe could be used on all cars. Hugh is definitely interested in
improving
the design. He just needs to be convinced. I'll follow up with him, others
should do the same.

Sorry I can't make Celina this year.

Ken Chambers, CA
'64 Amphi

PS: I'd like to reinforce what Amphipoda said yesterday. When driving about
Celina, SMILE and WAVE at everyone who waves at you, and then some. The crowd
is there to see you and your wonderful Amphicars. Have fun!
 

Similar threads


Top