Paint

PeterP

Member
I had a paint and body guy come out to give me a quote on getting the rust cut out and the car repainted.

Ouch.

Regardless, we had some discussion about single stage paint vs. base and clear coat. What have you guys used, and is there a clear advantage either way? My gut is that the single stage is probably better for long term durability, but more difficult to repair if it gets scratched or dented.

Also, for the bilge area, it seems a lot of people have gone with POR-15 or an equivalent. I think there was some discussion about proper prep being critical for that paint. Has anyone come up with something better to use?
 
I would stay away from POR-15, I spent 3 hours yesterday scraping sheets of POR-15 from the bottom of my truck. All it did was cause more rust by holding moisture under it against the steel. Blast/ strip and sand your metal clean then coat with epoxy primer. A for the top coats, I prefer 2 stage Urethane for the outside areas as its easier to sand out and fix any mistakes, dust or bugs that fly into it before its dry. Inside single stage is easier. Just my 2 cents... Jack
 
B

Brian Faherty

Guest
Use glovit from West Marine



_____

From: canitfloat [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:56 AM
To: Brian Faherty
Subject: [BULK] RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20582] Re: Paint
Importance: Low



I would stay away from POR-15, I spent 3 hours yesterday scraping sheets of
POR-15 from the bottom of my truck. All it did was cause more rust by
holding moisture under it against the steel. Blast/ strip and sand your
metal clean then coat with epoxy primer. A for the top coats, I prefer 2
stage Urethane for the outside areas as its easier to sand out and fix any
mistakes, dust or bugs that fly into it before its dry. Inside single stage
is easier. Just my 2 cents... Jack
 

DavidC

Amphicar Expert
Yes, you'll see from the archives I've always strongly recommended people
don't put any POR15, epoxy, boat paint or any other "wonder products" on
Amphi - there is no benefit and they just cause problems later on, hide
damage, difficult to remove, add weight, look wrong, have limited life etc.



Ordinary single pack paint is the way to go and then wax on top. It looks
original, is easy to repair and fix but also plenty durable enough for
Amphicar, my car has the paint I put on it in 1987 and it is still in
excellent condition.



I would however use an etch primer as the first coat, this looks and feels
like ordinary paint and can be removed but the etch helps it stick to the
original Amphicar steel.



David C
 

mike_israel

Amphicar Forum Admin
Staff member
Peter,

Read the archives and you will find lots of info.

Por-15 generally considered bad. Short of tank dipping, you will never get the bilge 100% clean. Por-15 will trap water unerneath causing even worse rust and will eventually start peeling off. Autorestorer Magazine did a test of it a few years back and encountered similar problems even after carefully following the application instructions.

Gluvit was considered a good solution some years back but ran into many of the same problems. i do not think anyone is using that any more.

In the past some tried undercoating materials. That turned out to be a total nightmare. Same problems with trapping water but removing the stuff to do any sort of repairs or welding is the worst part.

Best approach is e-coating but that is a big effort that not many places can do. Second best would be to use an epoxy based primer.

Cheers,

Mike
 
R

Ron Green

Guest
I have had the opposite experience with POR-15. Mine has been on 6 years now and zeros issues. No flaking, peeling,lifting, etc and I clean the bilge every winter and check everything. I even had the master cylinder leak dry (Dot 3 brake fluid ) and lay in the bilge on top of the POR for 2 weeks and it still didn't lift. I did the engine compartment, front trunk, entire bilge clear up to the headlights / rear fins, etc. I even did the entire exterior underside including the wheel wheels.


The key was in prep and metal etching which was extremely time consuming. I used many 3M wheels to tooth it for adhesion. If it isn't prepped correctly it will definitely lift for sure. It is impossible to scratch or chip.
 

PeterP

Member
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I suspect this is one of those situations where there is not a correct answer. Across the internet as a whole, it seems like some people use POR-15 and love it, and some people have it flake off in six months.

It's probably a complex combination of surface prep, weather conditions, and application technique.

Nothing is ever simple, is it? :012:

For the moment I think I will just go with the epoxy primer and try and keep oil and fluids from sitting in the bilge any longer than I have to.
 

jfriese

Active Member
Peter,

I use a PPG Pitt-Guard Epoxy Mastic coating that I feel is about perfect for Amphicar interior bilge areas and doesn't have the preparation problems of Por 15. It's a two part epoxy mix that can be mixed to whatever color you desire. It works as a primer, an intermediate coat or a top coat. It isn't UV sensitive and dries to a rather flat finish. It can be applied to clean metal, rust or a well bonded existing paint. It is quite thick and flows well over a rather long drying period so it fills well. You won't find it at most regular paint stores though but you should be able to find it at a store that sells industrial finishes. I bought my latest batch at a store called the Annex in Tarzana CA. What they call the 1 gallon size is actually two gallons since it mixes 50/50 with it's second part and this quantity is plenty to coat the entire Amphicar interior. Personally, I don't use it in the upper area of the front trunk and prefer something with slightly more gloss in that area. For that area I use a highly flattened marine deck paint.

As you can see from the enclosed photo the car I'm currently working on is a red one so I had the interior paint colored to a reasonably close match.

John Friese
67 White
67 Red

 

okey0

Member
Peter,

I use a PPG Pitt-Guard Epoxy Mastic coating that I feel is about perfect for Amphicar interior bilge areas and doesn't have the preparation problems of Por 15. It's a two part epoxy mix that can be mixed to whatever color you desire. It works as a primer, an intermediate coat or a top coat. It isn't UV sensitive and dries to a rather flat finish. It can be applied to clean metal, rust or a well bonded existing paint. It is quite thick and flows well over a rather long drying period so it fills well. You won't find it at most regular paint stores though but you should be able to find it at a store that sells industrial finishes. I bought my latest batch at a store called the Annex in Tarzana CA. What they call the 1 gallon size is actually two gallons since it mixes 50/50 with it's second part and this quantity is plenty to coat the entire Amphicar interior. Personally, I don't use it in the upper area of the front trunk and prefer something with slightly more gloss in that area. For that area I use a highly flattened marine deck paint.

John--
I HATE to bring up a 5 year old thread, but I was wondering if you still had good things to say about the Pitt-Guard epoxy coating?
 

dougklink

Member
I used it for a while in our fire truck restorations. The fumes are nasty and it is hard to work with. On my amphi I did the inside with a two part bedliner product that was tintable and was sprayed with a schutz gun. Worked great.
 

SNOWBIRD

Amphicar Expert
Dave sandblasted 003.jpg Dave Aug. 7th 002.jpg Dave Aug. 7th 010.jpg I start every project by Midia blasting the car, Doors hood trunk are acid dipped, (pic1)Found a place that does it by weight at a good price. the bare metal car is then epoxy primed, I then add some texture to the inside floor area(pic2)You will also note I have added different screw locations for the front seat, so it can be moved back for us long leged guys.The inside is then painted with a rust paint from Home Hardware that they have my colour mix on file,this is a slow drying paint so I add Hardner to it that is used in the primers and it kicks within an hour and stand up really good. Note the 2 holes in the top of frame beside trany area..All cars should have this done to them, the frames fill up with a black slug on 99% of the cars I have done, so this is a way to gety in and wash them out, holes are shop vac size.
I do use POR 15 on all the small parts, I do the brake shoes on the picnic table, When I go to take them off the table it pulls the wood off the table, with proper prep this stuff will hold forever!
Exterior paint.. I could go on forever here
base clear or single stage... 50-50 owners choice, both will stand up as long as you own the car(and look after it)
I use Dupont premier single stage as it apllys easy and will polish out to a mirror finish. but is very expesive, specially RED.
 

jfriese

Active Member
Hi,

I did the write up 5 years ago and still love the stuff. I find it easy to work with and I don't any problems with the smell of the stuff when wet.

John Friese
67 White
67 Red
 

mike_israel

Amphicar Forum Admin
Staff member
I prefer epoxy based coatings, mainly because if any water gets underneath POR-15, it will be trapped there. Eventually you will be able to pull the Por-15 off in sheets. I suppose it might be OK for vertical surfaces or small parts where water will not get trapped underneath. As others have noted, metal should be pristine clean before applying.

The ideal situation is e-coating but not many places offer that service.

In any event, for those of you who do like Por-15, you can get a 10% discount here:

http://www.advanced-rust-protection.com
 

jfriese

Active Member
Mike,

I used POR15 on the battery tray and box parts 12 years ago and there is still no lifting or rust issues at all. I top coated the POR15 on the tray with their Tie Bond stuff and then the colored Mastic. POR 15 is a bit tricky to use but when you get it right, it's rather amazing. That Mastic I use is an epoxy like stuff that uses equal parts of the color and hardener base, so it's easy to mix in whatever batch size you need.

John Friese
67 White
67 Red
 

SNOWBIRD

Amphicar Expert
A nice trick with high build primer, it comes in grey, this car will be blue so 1st coat is primed, grey, then I add some dark blue consintrate, just a few drips, AND PRIMER IS NOW LIGHT BLUE--- COLOUR CAR WILL BE,,
Now when I board sand out I can see when I cut threw into lower layers etc, Plus when car is painted, cover coat is simple!

Sept 10st Dave 001.jpg
 

mschlem

Amphicar Expert & Former IAOC President
....okay, similar question: What about the gap area in the rear quarters adjacent/below the battery trays? Are you all just using these products on the vertical surfaces in the gap? Filling the gap with something? I'd love to keep all water out of there.

Marc.
 

mike_israel

Amphicar Forum Admin
Staff member
Once cured, POR-15 is hard as a rock and about as flexible as plate glass. When applied to metal, the POR-15 expands and contracts at a different rate from the metal, so something has to give. The POR-15 still looks perfect but it has separated from the metal. You now have a rust manufacturing plant operating at maximum efficiency, completely out of sight under the POR-15.

Epoxy paint / primer maintains some flexibility. You can actually make hockey pucks out of leftover epoxy paint and it will "bounce" even years later.

Eastwood now offers spray cans of epoxy based primer / paint. You have to use it all within 48 hours of activating the catalyst and please wear a mask when spraying . I used it for some engine tin on my Porsche. I beat and scraped the hell out of the pieces putting them back on and the paint never left the metal.
http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-s-2k-aero-spray-epoxy-primer-gray.html
 

dougklink

Member
Once cured, POR-15 is hard as a rock and about as flexible as plate glass. When applied to metal, the POR-15 expands and contracts at a different rate from the metal, so something has to give. The POR-15 still looks perfect but it has separated from the metal. You now have a rust manufacturing plant operating at maximum efficiency, completely out of sight under the POR-15. Epoxy paint / primer maintains some flexibility. You can actually make hockey pucks out of leftover epoxy paint and it will "bounce" even years later. Eastwood now offers spray cans of epoxy based primer / paint. You have to use it all within 48 hours of activating the catalyst and please wear a mask when spraying . I used it for some engine tin on my Porsche. I beat and scraped the hell out of the pieces putting them back on and the paint never left the metal. http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-s-2k-aero-spray-epoxy-primer-gray.html
Peter, I use a PPG Pitt-Guard Epoxy Mastic coating that I feel is about perfect for Amphicar interior bilge areas and doesn't have the preparation problems of Por 15. It's a two part epoxy mix that can be mixed to whatever color you desire. It works as a primer, an intermediate coat or a top coat. It isn't UV sensitive and dries to a rather flat finish. It can be applied to clean metal, rust or a well bonded existing paint. It is quite thick and flows well over a rather long drying period so it fills well. You won't find it at most regular paint stores though but you should be able to find it at a store that sells industrial finishes. I bought my latest batch at a store called the Annex in Tarzana CA. What they call the 1 gallon size is actually two gallons since it mixes 50/50 with it's second part and this quantity is plenty to coat the entire Amphicar interior. Personally, I don't use it in the upper area of the front trunk and prefer something with slightly more gloss in that area. For that area I use a highly flattened marine deck paint. As you can see from the enclosed photo the car I'm currently working on is a red one so I had the interior paint colored to a reasonably close match. John Friese 67 White 67 Red
 

SNOWBIRD

Amphicar Expert
Rear Quaters... Do NOT fill this area with foamit or such products, Paint it good, pour paint down in and brush into cracks etc., Blow dry it with blow gun before putting away for storage.
I your restoreing quaters and have the outers off as in my picture, weld in a threaded nut about 3/8 dia. or bigger and make a drain plug so you can drain water out of quaters. If you look hard at pic .you can see a dark spot in lower front where I have installed the drain, Also do this in front fender well into the frame so it has a drain spot too.

Dave Aug. 7th 007.jpg
 
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