I NEED HELP - generator/regulator problems

T

Tony Averbeck

Guest
Here's my predicament - twice now, I've been on the way home in the Amphi and it
has just died on me while purring along at 55 - 60 mph. Since it happened
again last night while driving with the lights on it became evident that my
electrical system is pulling directly from the battery (ie. the
generator/regulator combo is not recharging the battery or producing enough
juice to power the engine & the lights) since I noticecd that the headlights
dimmed before the engine quit and after a jump, I was able to drive the final 6
miles home with the lights off (scary).

I've got a new regulator from Hugh today but before I install it I'd like to
know if my generator is working properly. Can anyone tell me what the output
of the generator SHOULD be when the engine is idling or reving? I'd hate to
replace the regulator only to get stranded again because the generator is shot.

Tony Averbeck, Cream '64, 512-413-8613



---------------------------------

Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
D

David Chapman

Guest
For piece of mind in such situations pop down to Pep Boys or similar and get a
small voltmeter, ideally one that plugs into the cigarette lighter socket
although if your car is still wired positive earth you may have to just run the
wires to a suitable live point, maybe the feed for the small interior light
under the dash. Or use a mutlimeter.

Obviously with everything off the voltage should be about 12v. With an original
charging system the voltage could be anything between 13 and 16volts with the
engine running but should remain above 12v unless headlights and wipers are on
and your are at idle (the generator can't cope with that).

If the voltage starts to drop below 12v the engine will run until about 10v
depending on the coil. With no charge at all you have maybe 15 minutes of
running time on a good battery with most electricals off.

Things to check - earthing, particularly from the generator to the frame - and
the battery leads. Also, check the ignition coil and ideally change it, they
can short internally which would explain the engine dying and the flat battery.

Answering the original question, I think the original generator produces about
20amps but only at high revs and it's difficult to measure, best to measure the
battery voltage instead.

David Chapman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Averbeck" <taverbeck@yahoo.com>
To: <amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:58 PM
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] I NEED HELP - generator/regulator problems



Here's my predicament - twice now, I've been on the way home in the Amphi and it
has just died on me while purring along at 55 - 60 mph. Since it happened
again last night while driving with the lights on it became evident that my
electrical system is pulling directly from the battery (ie. the
generator/regulator combo is not recharging the battery or producing enough
juice to power the engine & the lights) since I noticecd that the headlights
dimmed before the engine quit and after a jump, I was able to drive the final 6
miles home with the lights off (scary).

I've got a new regulator from Hugh today but before I install it I'd like to
know if my generator is working properly. Can anyone tell me what the output
of the generator SHOULD be when the engine is idling or reving? I'd hate to
replace the regulator only to get stranded again because the generator is shot.

Tony Averbeck, Cream '64, 512-413-8613



---------------------------------

Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before posting requests for information, please check the List
Archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
For more information about this List and other available services
visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
amphicar770@yahoo.com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 
T

Tony Averbeck

Guest
This is VERY helpful - thank you David. I do have a voltmeter as a matter of
fact, used it last night when the car died to confirm that the battery had been
discharged. I do however have a couple of clarification questions:
"With an original charging system the voltage could be anything between 13 and
16volts with the engine running" - where do you confirm voltage output in this
case? Directly out of the generator, out or the regulator or from the battery
posts directly? Again, I'm trying to isolate whether my problem is the
generator, the regulator or as you suggested, the coil.
"If the voltage starts to drop below 12v the engine will run until about 10v
depending on the coil" my battery read a bit above 9volts last night as I was
driving home in the dark with the headlights off - I'm assuming this confirms
that the coil is OK? If not, how do I check it? Should I check the voltage
between the coil and the distributor while the engine is running? What should
it be if the coil is good? I've also been told that the coil can fail when it
heats up. Any truth to that?
Tony Averbeck
David Chapman <david@manbus.com> wrote: For piece of mind in such situations
pop down to Pep Boys or similar and get a
small voltmeter, ideally one that plugs into the cigarette lighter socket
although if your car is still wired positive earth you may have to just run the
wires to a suitable live point, maybe the feed for the small interior light
under the dash. Or use a mutlimeter.

Obviously with everything off the voltage should be about 12v. With an original
charging system the voltage could be anything between 13 and 16volts with the
engine running but should remain above 12v unless headlights and wipers are on
and your are at idle (the generator can't cope with that).

If the voltage starts to drop below 12v the engine will run until about 10v
depending on the coil. With no charge at all you have maybe 15 minutes of
running time on a good battery with most electricals off.

Things to check - earthing, particularly from the generator to the frame - and
the battery leads. Also, check the ignition coil and ideally change it, they
can short internally which would explain the engine dying and the flat battery.

Answering the original question, I think the original generator produces about
20amps but only at high revs and it's difficult to measure, best to measure the
battery voltage instead.

David Chapman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Averbeck" <taverbeck@yahoo.com>
To: <amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:58 PM
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] I NEED HELP - generator/regulator problems



Here's my predicament - twice now, I've been on the way home in the Amphi and it
has just died on me while purring along at 55 - 60 mph. Since it happened
again last night while driving with the lights on it became evident that my
electrical system is pulling directly from the battery (ie. the
generator/regulator combo is not recharging the battery or producing enough
juice to power the engine & the lights) since I noticecd that the headlights
dimmed before the engine quit and after a jump, I was able to drive the final 6
miles home with the lights off (scary).

I've got a new regulator from Hugh today but before I install it I'd like to
know if my generator is working properly. Can anyone tell me what the output
of the generator SHOULD be when the engine is idling or reving? I'd hate to
replace the regulator only to get stranded again because the generator is shot.

Tony Averbeck, Cream '64, 512-413-8613



---------------------------------

Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before posting requests for information, please check the List
Archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
For more information about this List and other available services
visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
amphicar770@yahoo.com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before posting requests for information, please check the List
Archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
For more information about this List and other available services
visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
amphicar770@yahoo.com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------

Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
D

David Chapman

Guest
Hi Tony,

The voltage is across the battery posts which should be the same as at the
cigarette lighter or anywhere else on the car, the voltage measure doesn't
really help you identify if the fault is generator or regulator, but does narrow
it down to one of the two !

9 Volts doesn't mean the coil is OK, it might run even lower than that, it
depends on the state of the HT system plugs etc, as the coil voltage drops
eventually the spark doesn't have enough power to jump the gap and the engine
dies.

There is no way to test the coil apart from swopping it, yes they can fail when
warm and start working again when cold. It'll have a datestamp on it, if it's
original I'd change it just to eliminate it.

The original voltage regulator doesn't normally fail in a way that causes the
engine to suddenly die, same with the generator, and if the voltage does drop
the engine will normally die at low RPM not when travelling at hight RPM, look
at earthing but also all of the HT side of the engine - which brings us back to
the coil !

David Chapman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Averbeck" <taverbeck@yahoo.com>
To: <amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] I NEED HELP - generator/regulator problems



This is VERY helpful - thank you David. I do have a voltmeter as a matter of
fact, used it last night when the car died to confirm that the battery had been
discharged. I do however have a couple of clarification questions:
"With an original charging system the voltage could be anything between 13 and
16volts with the engine running" - where do you confirm voltage output in this
case? Directly out of the generator, out or the regulator or from the battery
posts directly? Again, I'm trying to isolate whether my problem is the
generator, the regulator or as you suggested, the coil.
"If the voltage starts to drop below 12v the engine will run until about 10v
depending on the coil" my battery read a bit above 9volts last night as I was
driving home in the dark with the headlights off - I'm assuming this confirms
that the coil is OK? If not, how do I check it? Should I check the voltage
between the coil and the distributor while the engine is running? What should
it be if the coil is good? I've also been told that the coil can fail when it
heats up. Any truth to that?
Tony Averbeck
David Chapman <david@manbus.com> wrote: For piece of mind in such situations
pop down to Pep Boys or similar and get a
small voltmeter, ideally one that plugs into the cigarette lighter socket
although if your car is still wired positive earth you may have to just run the
wires to a suitable live point, maybe the feed for the small interior light
under the dash. Or use a mutlimeter.

Obviously with everything off the voltage should be about 12v. With an original
charging system the voltage could be anything between 13 and 16volts with the
engine running but should remain above 12v unless headlights and wipers are on
and your are at idle (the generator can't cope with that).

If the voltage starts to drop below 12v the engine will run until about 10v
depending on the coil. With no charge at all you have maybe 15 minutes of
running time on a good battery with most electricals off.

Things to check - earthing, particularly from the generator to the frame - and
the battery leads. Also, check the ignition coil and ideally change it, they
can short internally which would explain the engine dying and the flat battery.

Answering the original question, I think the original generator produces about
20amps but only at high revs and it's difficult to measure, best to measure the
battery voltage instead.

David Chapman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Averbeck" <taverbeck@yahoo.com>
To: <amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:58 PM
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] I NEED HELP - generator/regulator problems



Here's my predicament - twice now, I've been on the way home in the Amphi and it
has just died on me while purring along at 55 - 60 mph. Since it happened
again last night while driving with the lights on it became evident that my
electrical system is pulling directly from the battery (ie. the
generator/regulator combo is not recharging the battery or producing enough
juice to power the engine & the lights) since I noticecd that the headlights
dimmed before the engine quit and after a jump, I was able to drive the final 6
miles home with the lights off (scary).

I've got a new regulator from Hugh today but before I install it I'd like to
know if my generator is working properly. Can anyone tell me what the output
of the generator SHOULD be when the engine is idling or reving? I'd hate to
replace the regulator only to get stranded again because the generator is shot.

Tony Averbeck, Cream '64, 512-413-8613



---------------------------------

Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before posting requests for information, please check the List
Archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
For more information about this List and other available services
visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
amphicar770@yahoo.com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before posting requests for information, please check the List
Archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
For more information about this List and other available services
visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
amphicar770@yahoo.com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------

Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before posting requests for information, please check the List
Archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
For more information about this List and other available services
visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
amphicar770@yahoo.com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 
T

Tony Averbeck

Guest
I've checked the date stamp and I do have an original coil. Do you have a
manufactuer and/or part number for a new coil - my local parts store has been
zero help so far. They're clueless when I tell them it's a '64 Amphicar and not
much more helpful when I relate that it uses a 1147cc Triumph Herald engine. I
can order it directly from Hugh but getting it here quick is the issue. We've
got the Austin Swim-in this weekend and I'd prefer it not dieing on me in the
water.
PS. What's the "HT" system?
Thanks again for the help. Tony Averbeck
David Chapman <david@manbus.com> wrote: Hi Tony,

The voltage is across the battery posts which should be the same as at the
cigarette lighter or anywhere else on the car, the voltage measure doesn't
really help you identify if the fault is generator or regulator, but does narrow
it down to one of the two !

9 Volts doesn't mean the coil is OK, it might run even lower than that, it
depends on the state of the HT system plugs etc, as the coil voltage drops
eventually the spark doesn't have enough power to jump the gap and the engine
dies.

There is no way to test the coil apart from swopping it, yes they can fail when
warm and start working again when cold. It'll have a datestamp on it, if it's
original I'd change it just to eliminate it.

The original voltage regulator doesn't normally fail in a way that causes the
engine to suddenly die, same with the generator, and if the voltage does drop
the engine will normally die at low RPM not when travelling at hight RPM, look
at earthing but also all of the HT side of the engine - which brings us back to
the coil !

David Chapman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Averbeck" <taverbeck@yahoo.com>
To: <amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] I NEED HELP - generator/regulator problems



This is VERY helpful - thank you David. I do have a voltmeter as a matter of
fact, used it last night when the car died to confirm that the battery had been
discharged. I do however have a couple of clarification questions:
"With an original charging system the voltage could be anything between 13 and
16volts with the engine running" - where do you confirm voltage output in this
case? Directly out of the generator, out or the regulator or from the battery
posts directly? Again, I'm trying to isolate whether my problem is the
generator, the regulator or as you suggested, the coil.
"If the voltage starts to drop below 12v the engine will run until about 10v
depending on the coil" my battery read a bit above 9volts last night as I was
driving home in the dark with the headlights off - I'm assuming this confirms
that the coil is OK? If not, how do I check it? Should I check the voltage
between the coil and the distributor while the engine is running? What should
it be if the coil is good? I've also been told that the coil can fail when it
heats up. Any truth to that?
Tony Averbeck
David Chapman <david@manbus.com> wrote: For piece of mind in such situations
pop down to Pep Boys or similar and get a
small voltmeter, ideally one that plugs into the cigarette lighter socket
although if your car is still wired positive earth you may have to just run the
wires to a suitable live point, maybe the feed for the small interior light
under the dash. Or use a mutlimeter.

Obviously with everything off the voltage should be about 12v. With an original
charging system the voltage could be anything between 13 and 16volts with the
engine running but should remain above 12v unless headlights and wipers are on
and your are at idle (the generator can't cope with that).

If the voltage starts to drop below 12v the engine will run until about 10v
depending on the coil. With no charge at all you have maybe 15 minutes of
running time on a good battery with most electricals off.

Things to check - earthing, particularly from the generator to the frame - and
the battery leads. Also, check the ignition coil and ideally change it, they
can short internally which would explain the engine dying and the flat battery.

Answering the original question, I think the original generator produces about
20amps but only at high revs and it's difficult to measure, best to measure the
battery voltage instead.

David Chapman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Averbeck" <taverbeck@yahoo.com>
To: <amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:58 PM
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] I NEED HELP - generator/regulator problems



Here's my predicament - twice now, I've been on the way home in the Amphi and it
has just died on me while purring along at 55 - 60 mph. Since it happened
again last night while driving with the lights on it became evident that my
electrical system is pulling directly from the battery (ie. the
generator/regulator combo is not recharging the battery or producing enough
juice to power the engine & the lights) since I noticecd that the headlights
dimmed before the engine quit and after a jump, I was able to drive the final 6
miles home with the lights off (scary).

I've got a new regulator from Hugh today but before I install it I'd like to
know if my generator is working properly. Can anyone tell me what the output
of the generator SHOULD be when the engine is idling or reving? I'd hate to
replace the regulator only to get stranded again because the generator is shot.

Tony Averbeck, Cream '64, 512-413-8613



---------------------------------

Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before posting requests for information, please check the List
Archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
For more information about this List and other available services
visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
amphicar770@yahoo.com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before posting requests for information, please check the List
Archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
For more information about this List and other available services
visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
amphicar770@yahoo.com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------

Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before posting requests for information, please check the List
Archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
For more information about this List and other available services
visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
amphicar770@yahoo.com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before posting requests for information, please check the List
Archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
For more information about this List and other available services
visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
amphicar770@yahoo.com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------

Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
D

David Chapman

Guest
HT is High Tension, the high voltage bits from the coil to distributor and
plugs.

The ignition coil is a standard part, same as the one on the Mini or just about
any other 1960s British car.

DC
 

Similar threads


Top