i just search vin number history and it seems nothing makes sense

victor brown

New Member
Ive read that the vin numbers are a mess and nobody exactly sure......Mine is 103277 according to one article that should be a 1964 but should only be an even number... Now the story i remember from Hugh was mine says 1964 but it has the lips bottom ridge that didn't come out till 1965..But they had they had the bodies just had to sell the old ones first.. So when they built this special Bodensee version he said they must have gone ahead and used a newer body.. Maybe that accounts for the odd number 3277....i will go back to maine in two weeks and get all the other numbers i just read about on hood trunk lid body front fender roof etc...
 

strandweiss62

Active Member
The factory closed in 1964, so no car could be build in 1965. Your car was build 1963.

The Bodensee cars are not made for Switzerland. In Switzerland amphibious cars are generally not allowed on lakes or rivers. Lake Constance (Bodensee) is sorrounded by Germany, Austria and Switzerland. On this lake there are special regulations for boats, so they had to modify the Amphicar.
 
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victor brown

New Member
That's what I wrote 1963.. was the build but it has lips that didn't come out till 1965...The reason for the red and green lights on different fenders and the 6ft stern pole and the higher freeboard back on the Bodensee model were first done because of Swiss rules.. they were named Bodensee to market them to the whole area not just Switzerland but the changes were originally made cause of Swiss .. that's what Hugh told me and the King I bought it from told me he had a 6ft stern light the factory gave to him and they gave him the 3ft one and the 6ft was for Swiss.... Hugh didn't know about the heat shield on carburetor if that was just Bodensee or Bodensee Swiss... the other day I noticed a small premuffler before the muffler I hadn't noticed before...a Swiss guy called me today who bought a lot of the parts from the factory when it closed .hes was a friend of Hugh's.... and told me he had two of the 6ft stern poles from the factory... I also have a strange center hood light and that pre muffler I got to ask him about....
 

strandweiss62

Active Member
Mine is 103277 according to one article that should be a 1964
That's what I wrote 1963..
Think as you like...
The fender lips were common since 1962.
The only swiss rule was and is: No amphibians (exept German or Austrian cars on Lake Constance).
Mufflers are heavily modified by owners in the years, often cars have Renault mufflers, my other Amphi has a pre muffler. This has no meaning.
Front marine lights sometimes were modified by owners. Original Bodensee models did not have a center light on the front hood. The original Hella tear drop light was available in white.
Heat shields are not unkommon.
When you call Basti again, best greetings from me.

Peter
 
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mschlem

Amphicar Expert & Former IAOC President
My car is 103127.....earlier than yours, Victor.....and mine has lips. Built in 1963, dated as 1965.

Marc.
 

victor brown

New Member
Thanks guys i am only repeating stuff i thought i remember hugh telling me....i had a 1964 with no lips... like i said when i started this thread i was reading everything i could past days on vin numbers and everybody wrote that its all mixed up .. you cant tell whats what by vin numbers.. 20 years when i used to talk to hugh i thought it was 1965 started lips then 1966 started black dash and chrome vent windows... i do remember Hugh and the King telling me about a 6ft stern light pole for Swiss...
 

SNOWBIRD

Amphicar Expert
My theory is( and its only my thoughts),, They planed to build 20,000 cars a year, so they started out ordering all the start up materials, opps, there not selling. Stop the line.

so I think they were all built in the first few years and then just tagged as they were sold, and since 2 plants were used to build them. no lips were at one place and lipped at the other

I have lost count of how many Amphicars I have restored,and seen many serial numbers out of place but lowest I have seen is 100042(in Texas)I had 100053 for a bit, Front hoods were different, (2bolt)Horns and seat braces too.
 

mike_israel

Amphicar Forum Admin
Staff member
In the early to mid 60's it was not uncommon for titles to reflect when the car was imported / sold rather than when built. Thus, a car built in '63 could show up as a '65.

Amphis were built in an era before just-in-time inventory management. All those extra parts which Hugh picked up in Holland would have never existed otherwise. Certainly seems likely that parts were just grabbed from whatever stockpile was closest.

I also heard that manufacturer production ended sometime around 1963.
 

strandweiss62

Active Member
René's Book, about 130 pages, 7 pages amphicar related. The book is out of print.

Mit dem Auto baden gehen.jpg



But i like this one better.

Worst Cars.jpg



Only one example for a modification i saw last week here in Germany, with Volkswagen dashboard and approved marine light on the front hood. The car also has disc brakes. This was only 40 miles away from the former Luebeck Amphicar factory.;)

Amphicar VW dashboard.jpg
 

victor brown

New Member
Thank you Standweiss...I remember Hugh telling me stories...Like Hans Trippel invented those first prototypes and they crushed them...dam i bet everyone dreams of finding one of those....Then the Amphicar company changed the design to be more like a car...and they basically ran Hans off...It was american money invested in what they called the Marshall act to help stimulate europe or something...Who were the actual board members or CEO that knew the real dirt... Is the Amphicar history and dirt in those books ? Did Hans Trippel write any book?...I guess thats what makes these amphis so fun..Like the car in that picture has the one long side mirror on the passenger side... Mine has two but the drivers side is shorter... Heaters and dash boards and vent windows and bumpers and bilge plugs and emergency brakes and mirrors and lights and rubber buckets for tail lights and bilge blowers etc etc etc... Is there a check list of differences...Someone should compile a list of differences/parts....The Kings Bodensee car only has 6000 km on it and they never took it in the water...at least the King or Queen didn't maybe their children or friends did...They told me when i asked them for pictures...The only pictures i have from 20 years ago are a box of amphicar pictures.. You guys know how many pictures get taken if you own an amphicar...So when they told me they never took it in the water... And you can tell they didn't modify anything... The strange pre muffler and heat shield on carburetor and storage square center light came from factory..
 

LSolheim

Member
Victor,
You might want to check out this thread about VIN's.

https://amphicar770.com/threads/first-post.6245/#post-15756

As far as I know, this is the general belief of year vs. VIN.
Do you agree, Peter?

Marc.
Alan Woodcock has a series of quite interesting letters and import documents (just to USA though, as I recall) that also show some interesting changes to VINs on Amphicars in-transit. Many were changed while enroute .. .. ..
 

victor brown

New Member
Victor,
You might want to check out this thread about VIN's.

https://amphicar770.com/threads/first-post.6245/#post-15756

As far as I know, this is the general belief of year vs. VIN.
Do you agree, Peter?

Marc.
Victor,
You might want to check out this thread about VIN's.

https://amphicar770.com/threads/first-post.6245/#post-15756

As far as I know, this is the general belief of year vs. VIN.
Do you agree, Peter?

Marc.
thank you mschlem That seemed to make sense so my kings car ...means it was the 127th car built in 1963... The king told me when he bought and other stuff...And Hugh told me lots of stories...But 7 years ago i went thru 2 years of chemo and radiation and it wipeout out a bunch memory... Thats why I'm having fun here with amphicars again..20 years ago thats all i did for 2 or 3 years... Then i disappeared to jungle in costa rica...Just last weekend i went to Maine and open they box my friend stored the Kings amphicar 17 years ago ..My brain has been on overload.. Flooding with memories..Seeing something causes me to remember stuff...But stuff i knew from reading or being told isn't there.. I was a private pilot 20 years ago..i was laughing my ass off the other day looking at my old test materials i had an instrument license... I cant even spell license without spell check...I really couldn't even believe i knew that stuff....Its called chemo fog... its good practice for when i get alzhimers....
 

strandweiss62

Active Member
https://amphicar770.com/threads/first-post.6245/#post-15756
As far as I know, this is the general belief of year vs. VIN.
Do you agree, Peter?
As i know this is the result of René's investigations. But in context with my list it seems to be true.
https://amphicar770.com/threads/car...erlin-your-vin-will-tell-you.7399/#post-21231

...like the car in that picture has the one long side mirror on the passenger side... Mine has two but the drivers side is shorter... Heaters and dash boards and vent windows and bumpers and bilge plugs and emergency brakes and mirrors and lights and rubber buckets for tail lights and bilge blowers etc etc etc... Is there a check list of differences...Someone should compile a list of differences/parts...
The long mirror ist called Aero and was used for Porsche 356, the short one is called Pronto.
The IAOC website has a list with the factory modifications and years in the members section. I have an additional list, but will keep it as my secret.

Peter
 

awoodc

Amphicar Expert
Ive read that the vin numbers are a mess and nobody exactly sure......Mine is 103277 according to one article that should be a 1964 but should only be an even number... Now the story i remember from Hugh was mine says 1964 but it has the lips bottom ridge that didn't come out till 1965..But they had they had the bodies just had to sell the old ones first.. So when they built this special Bodensee version he said they must have gone ahead and used a newer body.. Maybe that accounts for the odd number 3277....i will go back to maine in two weeks and get all the other numbers i just read about on hood trunk lid body front fender roof etc...
 

awoodc

Amphicar Expert
Victor Brown's car is an anomaly. The records I have show only odd numbers from chassis number3002 thru 3460 from Berlin. We know that 3000 series chassis were stamped out in 1963. The chassis number is the 6 digit number stamped on the firewall. The year of production is the year stamped on the VIN plate. Years of production are all over the place and are close to the year the car was first sold.

Amphicar Corporation of America called cars assembled with 6 digit vin numbers as early cars and cars with 9 digit vin numbers as late cars. This change happened as cars were being assembled in late 1964 and early 1965. The letter I have dated Jan 12, 1965 calls these cars early 1965 and late 1965 models. The letter also states "The easiest method of identification in the warehouse is, of course, the change in the facia or chrome on the window surrounds"

Many 6 digit cars with lips, such as Marc Schlemmer's car (3127), were assembled as early as September 1964 and are on inventory sheets I have from Sept 1964. (3391, 3427, 3429, 3435, 3441 etc)

My records show that these early 3000 6 digit series cars stopped coming in late in 1964. It may well be that these 3000 series cars were on the top of a pile of cars or in the way of 2000 series cars and had to be assembled and shipped to make room.

Without making this posting a "book" you all should know that the first 280 or so of the 9 digit cars came over with the first vin numbers such as 103620001 thru _ _ _ _ _ _ 280. When they realized that they would run out numbers after 999th car they re-stamped and the VIN plates. They dropped the last 3 digits and added 652 after the second digit. 103620001 became 106523620. If you look at John Bevin's vin number page on the IAOC site (http://www.amphicar.com/goodies/vin_numbers.htm) you will see vin 103031212. They did not re-stamp that car which should have been changed to 106523031.

I hope this helps --- my records are mostly old "union skin" copies which do not scan well enough to be made into a searchable PDF.

Allan

'66 red

 

awoodc

Amphicar Expert
Ive read that the vin numbers are a mess and nobody exactly sure......Mine is 103277 according to one article that should be a 1964 but should only be an even number... Now the story i remember from Hugh was mine says 1964 but it has the lips bottom ridge that didn't come out till 1965..But they had they had the bodies just had to sell the old ones first.. So when they built this special Bodensee version he said they must have gone ahead and used a newer body.. Maybe that accounts for the odd number 3277....i will go back to maine in two weeks and get all the other numbers i just read about on hood trunk lid body front fender roof etc...
Ive read that the vin numbers are a mess and nobody exactly sure......Mine is 103277 according to one article that should be a 1964 but should only be an even number... Now the story i remember from Hugh was mine says 1964 but it has the lips bottom ridge that didn't come out till 1965..But they had they had the bodies just had to sell the old ones first.. So when they built this special Bodensee version he said they must have gone ahead and used a newer body.. Maybe that accounts for the odd number 3277....i will go back to maine in two weeks and get all the other numbers i just read about on hood trunk lid body front fender roof etc...
 
Just to add some info from my dad, yes Peter is right about the Bodensee cars and the factory, big plans for production, 20,000 a year but it stopped after a couple of years because the factory struggled to get payment for the cars from the US. There is an interesting SEC document dated June 16th 1961 that explains the stock holding of Amphicar Corp. It was effectively owned by a bloke called Irving Kott who at that time was considered a respectable businessman. Google him now and a very different picture emerges, although he was never officially charged with stock fraud....
There were (and still are) very different approaches to payment, credit and debt in Germany and the US, those cultural differences are one of the reasons the Amphicar project failed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31369185
 

awoodc

Amphicar Expert
Ive read that the vin numbers are a mess and nobody exactly sure......Mine is 103277 according to one article that should be a 1964 but should only be an even number... Now the story i remember from Hugh was mine says 1964 but it has the lips bottom ridge that didn't come out till 1965..But they had they had the bodies just had to sell the old ones first.. So when they built this special Bodensee version he said they must have gone ahead and used a newer body.. Maybe that accounts for the odd number 3277....i will go back to maine in two weeks and get all the other numbers i just read about on hood trunk lid body front fender roof etc...
 
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