Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars

M

Mike Israel

Guest
Hi All,

I was recently browing some metal working forums and
came across discussions of an adhesive product called
Fusor.

http://www.lordfulfillment.com/upload/DS3327.pdf

http://www.lord.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1150&pid=5

The stuff has been OEM crash tested, has a lifetime
no-corrosion warranty, specified by GM TSB as
alternative to welding, etc. There are different
formulations for metal to metal bonding and for
fiberglass bonding. It is positioned as a "better
alternative" to welding.

The traditionalist in me is always skeptical (if
welding was good enuff for my daddy & good enuff for
his daddy ...). At the same time, the technologist in
me certainly sees potential advantages over welding in
terms of cost, time, corossion resistance, and no
unseen welding gaps or pinholes.

Any thoughts on the use of such products for metal to
metal repairs on an Amphi? For example, replacing
lower quarter panels? Again, especially interested in
thoughts regarding using such a product with steel
rather than fiberglass.

Mike I.
 
D

David Chapman

Guest
<table bgColor="#ffffff">
<tt>> I was recently browing some metal working forums and
> Any thoughts on the use of such products for metal to
</tt>
<tt><font face="Arial" size="2">I think the problem is "lifetime" ask them fora definition and it might be a surprise. I've always found an automotive lifetime is actually between 10 and 15 years - not very long at all, some jobs on my Amphi have been waiting 10 years to be done and the paint is now 18 years old yet it feels like only yesterday I was mixing the colours and deciding on the shade of red to use !</font></tt>
<tt><font face="Arial" size="2"></font></tt>
<tt><font face="Arial" size="2">My opinion, I would be happy for repairs to my everyday Toyota or Saab to be done this way but Amphicar has to be weld and lead. </font></tt>
<tt><font face="Arial" size="2"></font></tt>
<tt><font face="Arial" size="2">David C</font></tt>
 
M

Mike Israel

Guest
Skilled welders can be found without too much
difficulty. There are fewer and fewer people doing
any sort of lead work in the US. I have spoken to
folks from some of the top restoration shops and even
they only do it if a customer is really insistent.

Still, if not now, I imagine that at some point
adhesives may reach a point where they simply make
more sense than welding.



--- David Chapman <david@manbus.com> wrote:

> My opinion, I would be happy for repairs to my
> everyday Toyota or Saab to be done this way but
> Amphicar has to be weld and lead.
>
> David C
 
P

PVCJ PVCJ

Guest
Well guys I,m gonna have to let you know how i make out when i put amphi in
the water
becouse my whole car is glued except for the floor, new metal door panels,
fiberglass quarters
all glued on ? I love it"" and i have a welder. and know how to us it. even
the new metal panel
under the nose is glued on. they showed a test where they glued the front
fender of a car together and ran it into a wall the adhesive did not let go,
infact the fender bent at the weld.
well if you here of a amphi sinking in NY you know not to use adhesive on
yours :}

PAUL

>From: Mike Israel <amphicar770@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
>To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars
>Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 17:43:33 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Skilled welders can be found without too much
>difficulty. There are fewer and fewer people doing
>any sort of lead work in the US. I have spoken to
>folks from some of the top restoration shops and even
>they only do it if a customer is really insistent.
>
>Still, if not now, I imagine that at some point
>adhesives may reach a point where they simply make
>more sense than welding.
>
>
>
>--- David Chapman <david@manbus.com> wrote:
>
> > My opinion, I would be happy for repairs to my
> > everyday Toyota or Saab to be done this way but
> > Amphicar has to be weld and lead.
> >
> > David C
 
G

goob@twcny.rr.com

Guest
Hi Paul - Where in NY are you? I'm "stuck" here in Syracuse! Best of
luck to you with the test swim - I'm a firm believer in the new
adhesives. Gary.

----- Original Message -----
From: PVCJ PVCJ <pvcj@hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, May 26, 2005 9:26 pm
Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars

> Well guys I,m gonna have to let you know how i make out when i put
> amphi in
> the water
> becouse my whole car is glued except for the floor, new metal door
> panels,
> fiberglass quarters
> all glued on ? I love it"" and i have a welder. and know how to us
> it. even
> the new metal panel
> under the nose is glued on. they showed a test where they glued
> the front
> fender of a car together and ran it into a wall the adhesive did
> not let go,
> infact the fender bent at the weld.
> well if you here of a amphi sinking in NY you know not to use
> adhesive on
> yours :}
>
>
> PAUL
>
> >From: Mike Israel <amphicar770@yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> >To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars
> >Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 17:43:33 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Skilled welders can be found without too much
> >difficulty. There are fewer and fewer people doing
> >any sort of lead work in the US. I have spoken to
> >folks from some of the top restoration shops and even
> >they only do it if a customer is really insistent.
> >
> >Still, if not now, I imagine that at some point
> >adhesives may reach a point where they simply make
> >more sense than welding.
> >
> >
> >
> >--- David Chapman <david@manbus.com> wrote:
> >
> > > My opinion, I would be happy for repairs to my
> > > everyday Toyota or Saab to be done this way but
> > > Amphicar has to be weld and lead.
> > >
> > > David C
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> ~-->
> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers.
> At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/B9pRWD/3MnJAA/Y3ZIAA/xiTolB/TM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
> THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> Archives:
> http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> For more information about this List and other available services
> visit:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> To Unsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
> amphicar770@yahoo.com
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
 
G

goob@twcny.rr.com

Guest
Mike - I use these products everyday at work, have for years, never a
problem! With all the testing that has been done and from "real-life"
experience, I'd much rather glue than weld. Gary.

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Israel <amphicar770@yahoo.com>
Date: Thursday, May 26, 2005 5:53 pm
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars

> Hi All,
>
> I was recently browing some metal working forums and
> came across discussions of an adhesive product called
> Fusor.
>
> http://www.lordfulfillment.com/upload/DS3327.pdf
>
> http://www.lord.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1150&pid=5
>
> The stuff has been OEM crash tested, has a lifetime
> no-corrosion warranty, specified by GM TSB as
> alternative to welding, etc. There are different
> formulations for metal to metal bonding and for
> fiberglass bonding. It is positioned as a "better
> alternative" to welding.
>
> The traditionalist in me is always skeptical (if
> welding was good enuff for my daddy & good enuff for
> his daddy ...). At the same time, the technologist in
> me certainly sees potential advantages over welding in
> terms of cost, time, corossion resistance, and no
> unseen welding gaps or pinholes.
>
> Any thoughts on the use of such products for metal to
> metal repairs on an Amphi? For example, replacing
> lower quarter panels? Again, especially interested in
> thoughts regarding using such a product with steel
> rather than fiberglass.
>
> Mike I.
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> ~-->
> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?
> Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/2xaSZB/SOnJAA/Y3ZIAA/xiTolB/TM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
> THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> Archives:
> http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> For more information about this List and other available services
> visit:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> To Unsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
> amphicar770@yahoo.com
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
 
M

markamsdill@charter.net>

Guest
Hello all, Ive finished the metal work on the white 62 and have the car running
and most everything working. Im trying to get it done for the orphan show in
Ypsilanti, Mich. June 5th. I used body adhesive to attach the lower quarters and
it worked well. There is no warpage or flux corrosion and its very strong. We
tried to get the seam to rip on a test piece and couldnt ,even in a vice with
alot of effort. Thats my experience , I hope it helps and good luck. See you in
Celina. Mark Amsdill 62 white>
> From: Mike Israel <amphicar770@yahoo.com>
> Date: 2005/05/26 Thu PM 05:53:39 EDT
> To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars
>
>

</td></tr>
<table>
<tt>
Hi All,



I was recently browing some metal working forums and

came across discussions of an adhesive product called

Fusor.



http://www.lordfulfillment.com/upload/DS3327.pdf



http://www.lord.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1150&pid=5



The stuff has been OEM crash tested, has a lifetime

no-corrosion warranty, specified by GM TSB as

alternative to welding, etc. There are different

formulations for metal to metal bonding and for

fiberglass bonding. It is positioned as a "better

alternative" to welding.



The traditionalist in me is always skeptical (if

welding was good enuff for my daddy & good enuff for

his daddy ...). At the same time, the technologist in

me certainly sees potential advantages over welding in

terms of cost, time, corossion resistance, and no

unseen welding gaps or pinholes.



Any thoughts on the use of such products for metal to

metal repairs on an Amphi? For example, replacing

lower quarter panels? Again, especially interested in

thoughts regarding using such a product with steel

rather than fiberglass.



Mike I.



</tt>



<tt>
THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Before posting requests for information, please check the List

Archives:

http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html

For more information about this List and other available services

visit:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/

To Unsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:

amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:

amphicar770@yahoo.com





</tt>
 
A

a_colo_native

Guest
Mike - Fusor adhesive is some very tough stuff indeed. We used it to
glue on raised roofs on vans. It probably will be fine, but why take
chances with your car and your passengers lives?

My opinion is to stitch weld all panels an Amphicar. I would not want
to chance sinking my pride and joy due to a (probably rare, but
possible) bad batch of glue or hitting something that may seperate the
seam. My cars will only get proper steel panels and 100% perimeter
stitch welded. I certainly don't want to be sued by anyone for thier
car sinking and the bad things that go with that scenario. It has to
not only look correct, but more importantly it has to be perform
safely (IE - absorb an impact w/o creating a hole) because you and
your passengers lives depend on it.

John Bevins
Rocky Mountain Amphicar
 
R

Roger

Guest
Re: Re: Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars

"I think the problem is 'lifetime' "

I agree that the lifetime of a car may not be that long, but the
lifetime of adhesives can be very good.

My parents have a sailboat they bought new in 1965. It is a
"fiberglass" boat and "fiberglass" is just glass fibers held together
with an adhesive (the resin). Their boat has continuasly sat in salt
water since 1965 with very minimal maintance. The alluminium mast
corroded an broke a few years ago, and some of the wood has rot issues,
but the "adhesive" that holds the whole hull together hasn't had any
problems. How many metal Amphicars can match this?

Now I realize that fiberglass soaked with resin isn't the same as
bonding two sheets of metal together, but my point is that in many
applications "adhesives" or resins are superior to welding or metals. I
think it's a mistake to assume that welding is stronger, more durable,
or safer than adhesives.

Due to heating, welding weakens the metal around the weld. Also, all
welds have defects (voids, inclusions, etc.). These are a good place
for fatigue cracks to start. Adhesives do not have these problems. A
glued seam can be stronger and safer, even in a collision, than a welded
seam. Sure adhesives have there own problems if not properly designed
and performed, but welds too can be unsafe if not properly executed.

Roger
White '63
Seattle



a_colo_native wrote:

>Mike - Fusor adhesive is some very tough stuff indeed. We used it to
>glue on raised roofs on vans. It probably will be fine, but why take
>chances with your car and your passengers lives?
>
>My opinion is to stitch weld all panels an Amphicar. I would not want
>to chance sinking my pride and joy due to a (probably rare, but
>possible) bad batch of glue or hitting something that may seperate the
>seam. My cars will only get proper steel panels and 100% perimeter
>stitch welded. I certainly don't want to be sued by anyone for thier
>car sinking and the bad things that go with that scenario. It has to
>not only look correct, but more importantly it has to be perform
>safely (IE - absorb an impact w/o creating a hole) because you and
>your passengers lives depend on it.
>
> John Bevins
> Rocky Mountain Amphicar
>
>
>
>
>
>THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Before posting requests for information, please check the List
>Archives:
> http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
>For more information about this List and other available services
>visit:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
>To Unsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
> amphicar770@yahoo.com
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
 
P

PVCJ PVCJ

Guest
I live in Amsterdam about 45 minutes from syracuse... I have been working on
my car for over
two years on and off. How about you?, is this your first one? I had to slow
down a little running out of money. And working around the house. Well talk
to you later...

PAUL


>From: goob@twcny.rr.com
>Reply-To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
>To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars
>Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 21:43:19 -0400
>
>Hi Paul - Where in NY are you? I'm "stuck" here in Syracuse! Best of
>luck to you with the test swim - I'm a firm believer in the new
>adhesives. Gary.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: PVCJ PVCJ <pvcj@hotmail.com>
>Date: Thursday, May 26, 2005 9:26 pm
>Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars
>
> > Well guys I,m gonna have to let you know how i make out when i put
> > amphi in
> > the water
> > becouse my whole car is glued except for the floor, new metal door
> > panels,
> > fiberglass quarters
> > all glued on ? I love it"" and i have a welder. and know how to us
> > it. even
> > the new metal panel
> > under the nose is glued on. they showed a test where they glued
> > the front
> > fender of a car together and ran it into a wall the adhesive did
> > not let go,
> > infact the fender bent at the weld.
> > well if you here of a amphi sinking in NY you know not to use
> > adhesive on
> > yours :}
> >
> >
> > PAUL
> >
> > >From: Mike Israel <amphicar770@yahoo.com>
> > >Reply-To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars
> > >Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 17:43:33 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >Skilled welders can be found without too much
> > >difficulty. There are fewer and fewer people doing
> > >any sort of lead work in the US. I have spoken to
> > >folks from some of the top restoration shops and even
> > >they only do it if a customer is really insistent.
> > >
> > >Still, if not now, I imagine that at some point
> > >adhesives may reach a point where they simply make
> > >more sense than welding.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- David Chapman <david@manbus.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > My opinion, I would be happy for repairs to my
> > > > everyday Toyota or Saab to be done this way but
> > > > Amphicar has to be weld and lead.
> > > >
> > > > David C
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> > ~-->
> > In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers.
> > At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/B9pRWD/3MnJAA/Y3ZIAA/xiTolB/TM
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -~->
> >
> > THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> > Archives:
> > http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> > For more information about this List and other available services
> > visit:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> > To Unsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> > amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
> > amphicar770@yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
 
G

goob@twcny.rr.com

Guest
Re: Re: Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars

Exactly Roger - I use these adhesives everyday and have for years with
NO problems! Thanks - Gary.

----- Original Message -----
From: Roger <go4rain@comcast.net>
Date: Friday, May 27, 2005 1:37 pm
Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Re: Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars

> "I think the problem is 'lifetime' "
>
> I agree that the lifetime of a car may not be that long, but the
> lifetime of adhesives can be very good.
>
> My parents have a sailboat they bought new in 1965. It is a
> "fiberglass" boat and "fiberglass" is just glass fibers held
> together
> with an adhesive (the resin). Their boat has continuasly sat in
> salt
> water since 1965 with very minimal maintance. The alluminium mast
> corroded an broke a few years ago, and some of the wood has rot
> issues,
> but the "adhesive" that holds the whole hull together hasn't had
> any
> problems. How many metal Amphicars can match this?
>
> Now I realize that fiberglass soaked with resin isn't the same as
> bonding two sheets of metal together, but my point is that in many
> applications "adhesives" or resins are superior to welding or
> metals. I
> think it's a mistake to assume that welding is stronger, more
> durable,
> or safer than adhesives.
>
> Due to heating, welding weakens the metal around the weld. Also,
> all
> welds have defects (voids, inclusions, etc.). These are a good
> place
> for fatigue cracks to start. Adhesives do not have these
> problems. A
> glued seam can be stronger and safer, even in a collision, than a
> welded
> seam. Sure adhesives have there own problems if not properly
> designed
> and performed, but welds too can be unsafe if not properly executed.
>
> Roger
> White '63
> Seattle
>
>
>
> a_colo_native wrote:
>
> >Mike - Fusor adhesive is some very tough stuff indeed. We used it
> to
> >glue on raised roofs on vans. It probably will be fine, but why
> take
> >chances with your car and your passengers lives?
> >
> >My opinion is to stitch weld all panels an Amphicar. I would not
> want
> >to chance sinking my pride and joy due to a (probably rare, but
> >possible) bad batch of glue or hitting something that may
> seperate the
> >seam. My cars will only get proper steel panels and 100%
> perimeter
> >stitch welded. I certainly don't want to be sued by anyone for
> thier
> >car sinking and the bad things that go with that scenario. It has
> to
> >not only look correct, but more importantly it has to be perform
> >safely (IE - absorb an impact w/o creating a hole) because you
> and
> >your passengers lives depend on it.
> >
> > John Bevins
> > Rocky Mountain Amphicar
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> >Archives:
> > http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> >For more information about this List and other available services
> >visit:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> >To Unsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> > amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel)
at:
> > amphicar770@yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> ~-->
> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease?
> Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/0xaSZB/UOnJAA/Y3ZIAA/xiTolB/TM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
> THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> Archives:
> http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> For more information about this List and other available services
> visit:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> To Unsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
> amphicar770@yahoo.com
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
 
G

goob@twcny.rr.com

Guest
Hi Paul - no, this is definately not my first one! I have had this car
for a couple years and I'm gaining on it slowly. I spend too much time
on other projects, the house, motorcycles and various other interests,
but I hope to "jump" into it full force soon! I've been fooling with
these little gems since my dad started selling them in 1965, I'm not
going to give up now! Gary.

----- Original Message -----
From: PVCJ PVCJ <pvcj@hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, May 27, 2005 1:39 pm
Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars

> I live in Amsterdam about 45 minutes from syracuse... I have been
> working on
> my car for over
> two years on and off. How about you?, is this your first one? I
> had to slow
> down a little running out of money. And working around the house.
> Well talk
> to you later...
>
>
> PAUL
>
>
> >From: goob@twcny.rr.com
> >Reply-To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> >To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars
> >Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 21:43:19 -0400
> >
> >Hi Paul - Where in NY are you? I'm "stuck" here in Syracuse! Best of
> >luck to you with the test swim - I'm a firm believer in the new
> >adhesives. Gary.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: PVCJ PVCJ <pvcj@hotmail.com>
> >Date: Thursday, May 26, 2005 9:26 pm
> >Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars
> >
> > > Well guys I,m gonna have to let you know how i make out when i
put
> > > amphi in
> > > the water
> > > becouse my whole car is glued except for the floor, new metal
door
> > > panels,
> > > fiberglass quarters
> > > all glued on ? I love it"" and i have a welder. and know how
> to us
> > > it. even
> > > the new metal panel
> > > under the nose is glued on. they showed a test where they glued
> > > the front
> > > fender of a car together and ran it into a wall the adhesive did
> > > not let go,
> > > infact the fender bent at the weld.
> > > well if you here of a amphi sinking in NY you know not to use
> > > adhesive on
> > > yours :}
> > >
> > >
> > > PAUL
> > >
> > > >From: Mike Israel <amphicar770@yahoo.com>
> > > >Reply-To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and
Amphicars
> > > >Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 17:43:33 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >
> > > >Skilled welders can be found without too much
> > > >difficulty. There are fewer and fewer people doing
> > > >any sort of lead work in the US. I have spoken to
> > > >folks from some of the top restoration shops and even
> > > >they only do it if a customer is really insistent.
> > > >
> > > >Still, if not now, I imagine that at some point
> > > >adhesives may reach a point where they simply make
> > > >more sense than welding.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- David Chapman <david@manbus.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > My opinion, I would be happy for repairs to my
> > > > > everyday Toyota or Saab to be done this way but
> > > > > Amphicar has to be weld and lead.
> > > > >
> > > > > David C
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > > THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> > > Archives:
> > > http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> > > For more information about this List and other available services
> > > visit:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> > > To Unsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> > > amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike
> Israel) at:
> > > amphicar770@yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
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> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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> Archives:
> http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> For more information about this List and other available services
> visit:
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> To Unsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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A

a_colo_native

Guest
--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, Roger <go4rain@c...> wrote:
> "I think the problem is 'lifetime' "
> I agree that the lifetime of a car may not be that long, but the
> lifetime of adhesives can be very good.
> My parents have a sailboat they bought new in 1965. It is a
> "fiberglass" boat and "fiberglass" is just glass fibers held
together with an adhesive (the resin).

Roger,

That is a apples to spaggetti comaprison. Properly done to marine
specs, Fiberglass boats can withstand that type of exposure because
they are coated with a heavy layer of gel-coat. But it is not just
fiberglass held together with an adhesive. The fibers are embedded
within the resin and it is layers of fiberglass with marine grade
plywood embedded within for strength. Chop any fiberglass boat in
half and you'll not find just a 1/16" fiberglass panel. You will
find that it ranges from 3/4" and up in thickness.

Now the real problem is that you are bonding two dis-similar
materials. Steel and fiberglass expand, move and degrade at
different rates, they also have very different strengths. The
adhesives have the same problems.

If I hit a rock with my steel Amphi I will end up with a dent. If I
were to hit the same rock with an improperly engineered fiberglass
boat, I get a crack and matching leak (you better have a real good
bilge pump ready). If the Coast guard were to see this, my boat
would be deemed unsafe and I would be forced to remove it from the
water.

I have been restoring cars since I was in 8th grade (my 1st was
a '37 Ford Tudor in 1976). Yes, I may be a bit of a purist, but I
refuse to place my customers and passengers in danger. Poor welding
can cause problems. You have to be sure that it is done properly and
it will out last the rest of the car. No fiberglass or adhesive will
do that. I sure don't want to be in an Amphi when the seams come
apart in 5, 10 or 15 years due to the "lifetime" expiring on the
adhesive (and it will!) or due to improper preparation. I have also
worked in engineering for many years, so I understand that the parts
not only need to look right, but need to perform safely beyond
aestetic concerns.

I mentioned this to a local world renowned restorer of Bugatti
autos (2 of Leno's cars are there now). He almost spit his coffee
all over the place laughing. Then he got a serious look on his face
and asked if I was serious. When I said I was, he said no reputable
restorer would even consider that route.

In the end you need to do what you feel is right for your
situation.

I say toe-may-toe, you say toe-mah-toe.... ;)

John Bevins
 
P

PVCJ PVCJ

Guest
Hello Gary
Yea i guess its my falt that my amphicar is not done? Sence i started
rebuilding my amphi I had built
a 1928 c-cab truck,a 1921 t-bucket and a 1929 Mercedes kitcar, and ride my
motorcycle when i get a chance. My whole family rides? all fore of us. Talk
to you later

PAUL

>From: goob@twcny.rr.com
>Reply-To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
>To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars
>Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 15:00:50 -0400
>
>Hi Paul - no, this is definately not my first one! I have had this car
>for a couple years and I'm gaining on it slowly. I spend too much time
>on other projects, the house, motorcycles and various other interests,
>but I hope to "jump" into it full force soon! I've been fooling with
>these little gems since my dad started selling them in 1965, I'm not
>going to give up now! Gary.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: PVCJ PVCJ <pvcj@hotmail.com>
>Date: Friday, May 27, 2005 1:39 pm
>Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars
>
> > I live in Amsterdam about 45 minutes from syracuse... I have been
> > working on
> > my car for over
> > two years on and off. How about you?, is this your first one? I
> > had to slow
> > down a little running out of money. And working around the house.
> > Well talk
> > to you later...
> >
> >
> > PAUL
> >
> >
> > >From: goob@twcny.rr.com
> > >Reply-To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars
> > >Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 21:43:19 -0400
> > >
> > >Hi Paul - Where in NY are you? I'm "stuck" here in Syracuse! Best of
> > >luck to you with the test swim - I'm a firm believer in the new
> > >adhesives. Gary.
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: PVCJ PVCJ <pvcj@hotmail.com>
> > >Date: Thursday, May 26, 2005 9:26 pm
> > >Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and Amphicars
> > >
> > > > Well guys I,m gonna have to let you know how i make out when i
>put
> > > > amphi in
> > > > the water
> > > > becouse my whole car is glued except for the floor, new metal
>door
> > > > panels,
> > > > fiberglass quarters
> > > > all glued on ? I love it"" and i have a welder. and know how
> > to us
> > > > it. even
> > > > the new metal panel
> > > > under the nose is glued on. they showed a test where they glued
> > > > the front
> > > > fender of a car together and ran it into a wall the adhesive did
> > > > not let go,
> > > > infact the fender bent at the weld.
> > > > well if you here of a amphi sinking in NY you know not to use
> > > > adhesive on
> > > > yours :}
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > PAUL
> > > >
> > > > >From: Mike Israel <amphicar770@yahoo.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Fusor Body Adhesives and
>Amphicars
> > > > >Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 17:43:33 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > >
> > > > >Skilled welders can be found without too much
> > > > >difficulty. There are fewer and fewer people doing
> > > > >any sort of lead work in the US. I have spoken to
> > > > >folks from some of the top restoration shops and even
> > > > >they only do it if a customer is really insistent.
> > > > >
> > > > >Still, if not now, I imagine that at some point
> > > > >adhesives may reach a point where they simply make
> > > > >more sense than welding.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >--- David Chapman <david@manbus.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > My opinion, I would be happy for repairs to my
> > > > > > everyday Toyota or Saab to be done this way but
> > > > > > Amphicar has to be weld and lead.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > David C
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ----------------
> > ----
> > > > ~-->
> > > > In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers.
> > > > At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
> > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/B9pRWD/3MnJAA/Y3ZIAA/xiTolB/TM
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> > > > -~->
> > > >
> > > > THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> > > > Archives:
> > > > http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> > > > For more information about this List and other available services
> > > > visit:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> > > > To Unsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> > > > amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike
> > Israel) at:
> > > > amphicar770@yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> > ~-->
> > What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?
> > Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/2xaSZB/SOnJAA/Y3ZIAA/xiTolB/TM
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -~->
> >
> > THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> > Archives:
> > http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> > For more information about this List and other available services
> > visit:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> > To Unsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> > amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
> > amphicar770@yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
 
D

dave bennett

Guest
I have used many tubes of Lord Fusor both for body panels and trim pieces and have found that like anything else you must use the correct Lord Fusor product for the application at hand.I have glued many quarter panels and patch panels with no come backs.I started using it about 5-6 years ago .Lord Fusor claims that the adhesive has a 10,000 pound tear strength.They conducted a test and the metal around the glued repair tore apart before the repair did at 10,000 pounds.Pretty impresive I thought.Check out the whole Lord Fusor line , they have adhesives for many applications.Not only does it have great adhession but it will also seal the overlapped metal unlike welding.Also, there is very very minimal grinding wich means no warping.Be sure to wipe all squeeze out because paint and plastic fillers will not adhere to it and will cause paint lifting and spotting later.I cannot think of the car being produced , but it is all glued togethor .Insurance companies even allow this
adhesive.Well, just my view on the product.
Dave "stitcher" Bennett


Mike Israel <amphicar770@yahoo.com> wrote:
<blockquote class="replbq" style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><tt>Skilled welders can be found without too much
difficulty. There are fewer and fewer people doing
any sort of lead work in the US. I have spoken to
folks from some of the top restoration shops and even
they only do it if a customer is really insistent.

Still, if not now, I imagine that at some point
adhesives may reach a point where they simply make
more sense than welding.



--- David Chapman <david@manbus.com> wrote:

> My opinion, I would be happy for repairs to my
> everyday Toyota or Saab to be done this way but
> Amphicar has to be weld and lead.
>
> David C
</tt>

<tt>THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before posting requests for information, please check the List
Archives:
http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
For more information about this List and other available services
visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
To Unsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
amphicar770@yahoo.com


</tt>

</blockquote>


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D

David Chapman

Guest
<table bgColor="#ffffff">
<font face="Arial" size="2">The Lotus Elise is the car that is glued together, there is a documentary sometimes shown on Discovery that explains in detail how the car was designed and constructed. Theadhesives used work very wellin this application. Of course it's not just Lotus, most new cars have important components glued and the wings on aircraft are often glued to the fuselage.</font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2">As Hugh explainedglue is an organic product. It has afinite life, that is just in the science of the product. Any glue designed for automotive use would have a design life of about 10 years because that is the design life of the vehicle it is to be used on. Automotive manufacturers have to work to a design life for a number of reasons, including the ability to recycle. Cars made today have no hope of being useable in say 50 years time, things like theplastics, electronics, air bags etc. will just not be capable of being repaired and maintained after the design life. Another issue is that in many parts of the world the manufacturers are increasingly responsible for product disposal at end of life so manufacturers have to think of recycling and "end lifeing" which requires components to be separated. </font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2">The era of the immortal car ended around 1970. There is no technical reason why our Amphicars can not last forever if properly maintained and repaired. The techniques of weld are proven and if used with lead the repair will last indefinitely (or proven to be at least 100 years). Any sort of adhesive will fail, it might be in 2 years, 10 years or 20 years but it will fail and what do you do then ? </font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2">Using glue on rubber seals and upholstery makessensebut using glue to attachbody panels to Amphicar is a mistake. There are proven, straightforward and reliable methods available and well documented to repair Amphicar that preserve it's safety and performance and these should be used. </font><font face="Arial" size="2">One of the biggest threats to our long term use of Amphicars are Eco and Safety people, the last thing we should do is give them any reason to question the performance and safety of our vehicles !</font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2">David C</font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"></font>
 
L

leonssor@aol.com

Guest
<font FACE="arial,helvetica"><font SIZE="2" PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I think there has been good discussions out there on the pros and cons of glue vs. welding. But, I do not feel that all glues are organics. Silicone based sealants were first introduced to be weatherseals to keep the environment out but they have evolved into products that have tensile strengths up to 350 psi and today are the products that hold windows and facades on the side of buildings. Some of these are 2 sided structural and others are 4 sided structural. They have been in use on buildings for weatherseal now about 50 years and as structural sealants for 30 years. Since they are inorganic, they are not broken down by the uv nor the heat from the sun. That is why they are used to seal the cracks in Mt Rushmore and the seams in the Statue of Liberty.

Silicones are now used in automotive in products such as the headlamps, gaskets and airbags but the auto folks still have the 5 to 10 year attitude so they do not pay extra for a product that may outlast the car.

Silicones vary so you need to know which cure systems (stay away from acetoxy cures) and what the product can do for you. When used right, it can be an alternate way to adhere parts together and gives an advantage because they stay flexible so very resistant to cracking and splitting and last beyond the 20 years. </font>
 
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