final drive ratios

[wcapron2001]

Has anyone researched different ring and pinion sets for the Amphicar
gearbox? Would something from Volkswagon fit? It would be nice to add
a 1500 engine or possibly something modern in the 90 horsepower range
and change the axel ratio to reduce rpm on the freeway.
Bill Capron
Blue '64
Red '62

 

[craig]

Funny you should mention this. I just got off the phone with Hugh and we
talked all things 1500. He cautioned me regarding the 1500 at high way
speeds. 4000 rpm in an Amphi is only 60mph or so. The 1500 needs some
serious work to rev high enough for real world highway speeds, i.e. 70
to 75. I built a 1500 for SCCA racing years ago and know they can be
made to rev, but I'd much rather do a ring gear swap and keep the motor
at lower rpm levels.

Craig, in Alaska

-----Original Message-----
From: wcapron2001 [mailto:wcarron@qwest.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 1:53 PM
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] final drive ratios


Has anyone researched different ring and pinion sets for the Amphicar
gearbox? Would something from Volkswagon fit? It would be nice to add
a 1500 engine or possibly something modern in the 90 horsepower range
and change the axel ratio to reduce rpm on the freeway.
Bill Capron
Blue '64
Red '62



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

[Daniel & Kathy Gibson]

I think that may be misinformation. I drive my 1973 Spitfire every day
on the highway, usually at close to 70 mph. The tach reads about 3800
rpm (no overdrive), and I have not had a bit of trouble in 2.5 years.
Never did with any of the previous 1500 cc spits either. I bet you will
be fine.

Dan
'64 Das Boot

craig wrote:
>
> Funny you should mention this. I just got off the phone with Hugh and we
> talked all things 1500. He cautioned me regarding the 1500 at high way
> speeds. 4000 rpm in an Amphi is only 60mph or so. The 1500 needs some
> serious work to rev high enough for real world highway speeds, i.e. 70
> to 75. I built a 1500 for SCCA racing years ago and know they can be
> made to rev, but I'd much rather do a ring gear swap and keep the motor
> at lower rpm levels.
>
> Craig, in Alaska
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wcapron2001 [mailto:wcarron@qwest.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 1:53 PM
> To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [amphicar-lovers] final drive ratios
>
> Has anyone researched different ring and pinion sets for the Amphicar
> gearbox? Would something from Volkswagon fit? It would be nice to add
> a 1500 engine or possibly something modern in the 90 horsepower range
> and change the axel ratio to reduce rpm on the freeway.
> Bill Capron
> Blue '64
> Red '62
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
> 064625:HM/A=1732163/R=0/SIG=11n0nglqg/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?c
> ode=30510&media=zone> click here
>
> <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egrou
> pmail/S=:HM/A=1732163/rand=679598484>
>
> THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> Archives:
> http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> For more information about this List and other available services
> visit:
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> To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
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> Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
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> http://www.growerflower.com/default.asp?id=41762
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--

Daniel and Kathy Gibson
http://www.katestrackshack.com
"Kate's Track Shack -Your Internet Home For Inexpensive 8-tracks!!"
AND...
http://drnooseandjambone.com
"DrNoose And Jambone - Do It To The Optigan!"

 

[craig]

If I under stood Hugh right 60 mph in an Amphi = close to 4000 rpm. I'm
just worried about driving the long empty highways up here at speeds
like 65 or 70. Wouldn't that mean close to 4300 rpm? Isn't that a little
much for a 1500?
Craig, in Alaska

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel & Kathy Gibson [mailto:dkgibson3@comcast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 2:22 PM
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] final drive ratios


I think that may be misinformation. I drive my 1973 Spitfire every day
on the highway, usually at close to 70 mph. The tach reads about 3800
rpm (no overdrive), and I have not had a bit of trouble in 2.5 years.
Never did with any of the previous 1500 cc spits either. I bet you will
be fine.

Dan
'64 Das Boot

craig wrote:
>
> Funny you should mention this. I just got off the phone with Hugh and
we
> talked all things 1500. He cautioned me regarding the 1500 at high way
> speeds. 4000 rpm in an Amphi is only 60mph or so. The 1500 needs some
> serious work to rev high enough for real world highway speeds, i.e. 70
> to 75. I built a 1500 for SCCA racing years ago and know they can be
> made to rev, but I'd much rather do a ring gear swap and keep the
motor
> at lower rpm levels.
>
> Craig, in Alaska
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wcapron2001 [mailto:wcarron@qwest.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 1:53 PM
> To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [amphicar-lovers] final drive ratios
>
> Has anyone researched different ring and pinion sets for the Amphicar
> gearbox? Would something from Volkswagon fit? It would be nice to add
> a 1500 engine or possibly something modern in the 90 horsepower range
> and change the axel ratio to reduce rpm on the freeway.
> Bill Capron
> Blue '64
> Red '62
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
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>
064625:HM/A=1732163/R=0/SIG=11n0nglqg/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?c
> ode=30510&media=zone> click here
>
>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egrou
> pmail/S=:HM/A=1732163/rand=679598484>
>
> THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> Archives:
> http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> For more information about this List and other available services
> visit:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
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> Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
> amphicar770@yahoo.com
> This list is provided as a free service. Please support our sponsors
> at:
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>
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> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> Archives:
> http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> For more information about this List and other available services
> visit:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
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> Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
> amphicar770@yahoo.com
> This list is provided as a free service. Please support our sponsors
at:
> http://www.growerflower.com/default.asp?id=41762
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--

Daniel and Kathy Gibson
http://www.katestrackshack.com
"Kate's Track Shack -Your Internet Home For Inexpensive 8-tracks!!"
AND...
http://drnooseandjambone.com
"DrNoose And Jambone - Do It To The Optigan!"


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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

[Eric M]

Actually you are both correct. The difference is in the
transmissions. The final drive ratio really impacts these things.




--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, Daniel & Kathy Gibson
<dkgibson3@c...> wrote:
> I think that may be misinformation. I drive my 1973 Spitfire every
day
> on the highway, usually at close to 70 mph. The tach reads about
3800
> rpm (no overdrive), and I have not had a bit of trouble in 2.5
years.
> Never did with any of the previous 1500 cc spits either. I bet you
will
> be fine.
>
> Dan
> '64 Das Boot
>
> craig wrote:
> >
> > Funny you should mention this. I just got off the phone with Hugh
and we
> > talked all things 1500. He cautioned me regarding the 1500 at
high way
> > speeds. 4000 rpm in an Amphi is only 60mph or so. The 1500 needs
some
> > serious work to rev high enough for real world highway speeds,
i.e. 70
> > to 75. I built a 1500 for SCCA racing years ago and know they can
be
> > made to rev, but I'd much rather do a ring gear swap and keep the
motor
> > at lower rpm levels.
> >
> > Craig, in Alaska
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: wcapron2001 [mailto:wcarron@q...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 1:53 PM
> > To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [amphicar-lovers] final drive ratios
> >
> > Has anyone researched different ring and pinion sets for the
Amphicar
> > gearbox? Would something from Volkswagon fit? It would be nice to
add
> > a 1500 engine or possibly something modern in the 90 horsepower
range
> > and change the axel ratio to reduce rpm on the freeway.
> > Bill Capron
> > Blue '64
> > Red '62
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17
05
> >
064625:HM/A=1732163/R=0/SIG=11n0nglqg/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm
?c
> > ode=30510&media=zone> click here
> >
> > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
M=194081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egrou
> > pmail/S=:HM/A=1732163/rand=679598484>
> >
> > THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> > Archives:
> > http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> > For more information about this List and other available services
> > visit:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> > To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> > amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel)
at:
> > amphicar770@y...
> > This list is provided as a free service. Please support our
sponsors
> > at:
> > http://www.growerflower.com/default.asp?id=41762
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> > Archives:
> > http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> > For more information about this List and other available services
> > visit:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> > To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> > amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel)
at:
> > amphicar770@y...
> > This list is provided as a free service. Please support our
sponsors at:
> > http://www.growerflower.com/default.asp?id=41762
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> --
>
> Daniel and Kathy Gibson
> http://www.katestrackshack.com
> "Kate's Track Shack -Your Internet Home For Inexpensive 8-tracks!!"
> AND...
> http://drnooseandjambone.com
> "DrNoose And Jambone - Do It To The Optigan!"

 

[Daniel & Kathy Gibson]

Re: Re: final drive ratios

True...but if an Amphicar with an 1147 can reach and cruise at 65-70
mph, then the 1500 should also do so, and then some with no trouble. The
1500 has received a bad rep for not being a robust engine. I have heard
time and again how easily the thrust washers fall out, or the bearing
spin, and so on. If quizzed, most people who have experienced these
problems are people who have "souped up" the engines. Hugh was telling
me about how his 1500 gave up the ghost quickly after he tuned it for
performance. Leave the 1500 stock, and it will run for a long time. Mess
with it, and you are asking for trouble. You will go fast, but for for
long!

Dan

Eric M wrote:
>
> Actually you are both correct. The difference is in the
> transmissions. The final drive ratio really impacts these things.
>
> --- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, Daniel & Kathy Gibson
> <dkgibson3@c...> wrote:
> > I think that may be misinformation. I drive my 1973 Spitfire every
> day
> > on the highway, usually at close to 70 mph. The tach reads about
> 3800
> > rpm (no overdrive), and I have not had a bit of trouble in 2.5
> years.
> > Never did with any of the previous 1500 cc spits either. I bet you
> will
> > be fine.
> >
> > Dan
> > '64 Das Boot
> >
> > craig wrote:
> > >
> > > Funny you should mention this. I just got off the phone with Hugh
> and we
> > > talked all things 1500. He cautioned me regarding the 1500 at
> high way
> > > speeds. 4000 rpm in an Amphi is only 60mph or so. The 1500 needs
> some
> > > serious work to rev high enough for real world highway speeds,
> i.e. 70
> > > to 75. I built a 1500 for SCCA racing years ago and know they can
> be
> > > made to rev, but I'd much rather do a ring gear swap and keep the
> motor
> > > at lower rpm levels.
> > >
> > > Craig, in Alaska
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: wcapron2001 [mailto:wcarron@q...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 1:53 PM
> > > To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [amphicar-lovers] final drive ratios
> > >
> > > Has anyone researched different ring and pinion sets for the
> Amphicar
> > > gearbox? Would something from Volkswagon fit? It would be nice to
> add
> > > a 1500 engine or possibly something modern in the 90 horsepower
> range
> > > and change the axel ratio to reduce rpm on the freeway.
> > > Bill Capron
> > > Blue '64
> > > Red '62
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > >
> > > ADVERTISEMENT
> > >
> > >
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17
> 05
> > >
> 064625:HM/A=1732163/R=0/SIG=11n0nglqg/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm
> ?c
> > > ode=30510&media=zone> click here
> > >
> > > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
> M=194081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egrou
> > > pmail/S=:HM/A=1732163/rand=679598484>
> > >
> > > THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> > > Archives:
> > > http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> > > For more information about this List and other available services
> > > visit:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> > > To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> > > amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel)
> at:
> > > amphicar770@y...
> > > This list is provided as a free service. Please support our
> sponsors
> > > at:
> > > http://www.growerflower.com/default.asp?id=41762
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service
> > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> > > Archives:
> > > http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> > > For more information about this List and other available services
> > > visit:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> > > To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> > > amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel)
> at:
> > > amphicar770@y...
> > > This list is provided as a free service. Please support our
> sponsors at:
> > > http://www.growerflower.com/default.asp?id=41762
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > --
> >
> > Daniel and Kathy Gibson
> > http://www.katestrackshack.com
> > "Kate's Track Shack -Your Internet Home For Inexpensive 8-tracks!!"
> > AND...
> > http://drnooseandjambone.com
> > "DrNoose And Jambone - Do It To The Optigan!"
>
>
> THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> Archives:
> http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> For more information about this List and other available services
> visit:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
> amphicar770@yahoo.com
> This list is provided as a free service. Please support our sponsors at:
> http://www.growerflower.com/default.asp?id=41762
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--

Daniel and Kathy Gibson
http://www.katestrackshack.com
"Kate's Track Shack -Your Internet Home For Inexpensive 8-tracks!!"
AND...
http://drnooseandjambone.com
"DrNoose And Jambone - Do It To The Optigan!"

 

[craig]

RE: Re: final drive ratios

You mean in the differential right. That's part of the Amphicar
transmission but is in the real axle of a spitfire. Forth gear should be
the same, 1 to 1, in both these. According to the maintenance manual the
diff in the Amphicar is a 1 to 4.72. That's very low considering most
jeeps run 1 to 3.50 or 1 to 4.11. I'm not sure what a spitfire rear diff
gearing is but I'd guess 1 to 3.7 or so...
Craig in Alaska

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric M [mailto:ericm_60707@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 5:55 PM
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] Re: final drive ratios


Actually you are both correct. The difference is in the
transmissions. The final drive ratio really impacts these things.




--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, Daniel & Kathy Gibson
<dkgibson3@c...> wrote:
> I think that may be misinformation. I drive my 1973 Spitfire every
day
> on the highway, usually at close to 70 mph. The tach reads about
3800
> rpm (no overdrive), and I have not had a bit of trouble in 2.5
years.
> Never did with any of the previous 1500 cc spits either. I bet you
will
> be fine.
>
> Dan
> '64 Das Boot
>
> craig wrote:
> >
> > Funny you should mention this. I just got off the phone with Hugh
and we
> > talked all things 1500. He cautioned me regarding the 1500 at
high way
> > speeds. 4000 rpm in an Amphi is only 60mph or so. The 1500 needs
some
> > serious work to rev high enough for real world highway speeds,
i.e. 70
> > to 75. I built a 1500 for SCCA racing years ago and know they can
be
> > made to rev, but I'd much rather do a ring gear swap and keep the
motor
> > at lower rpm levels.
> >
> > Craig, in Alaska
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: wcapron2001 [mailto:wcarron@q...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 1:53 PM
> > To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [amphicar-lovers] final drive ratios
> >
> > Has anyone researched different ring and pinion sets for the
Amphicar
> > gearbox? Would something from Volkswagon fit? It would be nice to
add
> > a 1500 engine or possibly something modern in the 90 horsepower
range
> > and change the axel ratio to reduce rpm on the freeway.
> > Bill Capron
> > Blue '64
> > Red '62
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17
05
> >
064625:HM/A=1732163/R=0/SIG=11n0nglqg/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm
?c
> > ode=30510&media=zone> click here
> >
> > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
M=194081.4074964.5287182.1261774/D=egrou
> > pmail/S=:HM/A=1732163/rand=679598484>
> >
> > THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> > Archives:
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> --
>
> Daniel and Kathy Gibson
> http://www.katestrackshack.com
> "Kate's Track Shack -Your Internet Home For Inexpensive 8-tracks!!"
> AND...
> http://drnooseandjambone.com
> "DrNoose And Jambone - Do It To The Optigan!"



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[John Friese]

All of my considerable research into the 1500 told me that a 1500
running at high speed in an Amphicar, won't last long. The difference
between the Spitfire and the Amphicar is the rear end ratio and I
know no way around the problem. 65 MPH is considered the fastest that
you can continuously run a 1500 in an Amphi. Lot's of people in the
German club can attest to this.

John Friese




--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, Daniel & Kathy Gibson
<dkgibson3@c...> wrote:
> True...but if an Amphicar with an 1147 can reach and cruise at 65-70
> mph, then the 1500 should also do so, and then some with no trouble. The
> 1500 has received a bad rep for not being a robust engine. I have heard
> time and again how easily the thrust washers fall out, or the bearing
> spin, and so on. If quizzed, most people who have experienced these
> problems are people who have "souped up" the engines. Hugh was telling
> me about how his 1500 gave up the ghost quickly after he tuned it for
> performance. Leave the 1500 stock, and it will run for a long time. Mess
> with it, and you are asking for trouble. You will go fast, but for for
> long!
>
> Dan
>
> Eric M wrote:
> >
> > Actually you are both correct. The difference is in the
> > transmissions. The final drive ratio really impacts these things.
> >
> > --- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, Daniel & Kathy Gibson
> > <dkgibson3@c...> wrote:
> > > I think that may be misinformation. I drive my 1973 Spitfire every
> > day
> > > on the highway, usually at close to 70 mph. The tach reads about
> > 3800
> > > rpm (no overdrive), and I have not had a bit of trouble in 2.5
> > years.
> > > Never did with any of the previous 1500 cc spits either. I bet you
> > will
> > > be fine.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > > '64 Das Boot
> > >
> > > craig wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Funny you should mention this. I just got off the phone with Hugh
> > and we
> > > > talked all things 1500. He cautioned me regarding the 1500 at
> > high way
> > > > speeds. 4000 rpm in an Amphi is only 60mph or so. The 1500 needs
> > some
> > > > serious work to rev high enough for real world highway speeds,
> > i.e. 70
> > > > to 75. I built a 1500 for SCCA racing years ago and know they can
> > be
> > > > made to rev, but I'd much rather do a ring gear swap and keep the
> > motor
> > > > at lower rpm levels.
> > > >
> > > > Craig, in Alaska
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: wcapron2001 [mailto:wcarron@q...]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 1:53 PM
> > > > To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [amphicar-lovers] final drive ratios
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone researched different ring and pinion sets for the
> > Amphicar
> > > > gearbox? Would something from Volkswagon fit? It would be nice to
> > add
> > > > a 1500 engine or possibly something modern in the 90 horsepower
> > range
> > > > and change the axel ratio to reduce rpm on the freeway.
> > > > Bill Capron
> > > > Blue '64
> > > > Red '62
> > > >
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> > 05
> > > >
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> > ?c
> > > > ode=30510&media=zone> click here
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> > > > THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> > > > THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> > > > Archives:
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> > at:
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> > > > This list is provided as a free service. Please support our
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> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Daniel and Kathy Gibson
> > > http://www.katestrackshack.com
> > > "Kate's Track Shack -Your Internet Home For Inexpensive 8-tracks!!"
> > > AND...
> > > http://drnooseandjambone.com
> > > "DrNoose And Jambone - Do It To The Optigan!"
> >
> >
> > THE AMPHICAR-LOVERS LIST
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Before posting requests for information, please check the List
> > Archives:
> > http://www.escribe.com/automotive/amphicar/search.html
> > For more information about this List and other available services
> > visit:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amphicar-lovers/
> > To UNsubscribe from this List, just send a blank email to:
> > amphicar-lovers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Any other issues may be addressed to the List owner (Mike Israel) at:
> > amphicar770@y...
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> >
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>
> --
>
> Daniel and Kathy Gibson
> http://www.katestrackshack.com
> "Kate's Track Shack -Your Internet Home For Inexpensive 8-tracks!!"
> AND...
> http://drnooseandjambone.com
> "DrNoose And Jambone - Do It To The Optigan!"

 

[Ken Chambers]

Pulled out my Triumph Spitfire repair manual and looked up some numbers to
compare engine speeds with the
Amphi.

First some facts on the model years and engine sizes:
Mk1 Oct 62 1147cc (70.0 cu in)
Mk2 Mar 65 1147
Mk3 Mar 67 1296cc (79.2)
Mk4 Oct 70 1296
1500 73-81 1493cc (91.0)

Spitfire Gearbox ratios:
1st 3.50:1 (3.75:1 on Mk1-4 models)
2nd 2.16:1
3rd 1.39:1
4th 1.00:1

1500 Final drive: 3.89:1
1500 overdrive: .79:1

1500 combined 4th gear ratio: 3.10:1

Spitfire tire size 155SR13, 22" Dia, 60.1"Cir.
A 22" tire at 70mph spins at 1070 rpm
Therefore the Spitfire engine at 70mph rotates at 3317 rpm


Amphicar gearbox ratios:
1st 4.50:1
2nd 2.91:1
3rd 1.75:1
4th 1.05:1
Final drive 4.72:1

Combined 4th gear ratio: 4.96:1

Amphicar tire size 6.50-13, 24" Dia, 75.4" Cir.
A 24" tire at 70mph spins at 980 rpm
Therefore the Amphicar engine at 70mph rotates at 4860 rpm.

So you can see that our Amphicar engines spin 46% faster than that of the
Spitfire (and most other cars) at the
same highway speed. I don't know what the designers were thinking to want the
engine to rotate so fast.

BTW, http://www.triumphspitfire.com has lots of good info on the Spitfire.

Ken Chambers
'64 Red




> All of my considerable research into the 1500 told me that a 1500
> running at high speed in an Amphicar, won't last long. The difference
> between the Spitfire and the Amphicar is the rear end ratio and I
> know no way around the problem. 65 MPH is considered the fastest that
> you can continuously run a 1500 in an Amphi. Lot's of people in the
> German club can attest to this.
>
> John Friese

 

[John Friese]

Ken,
The designers were trying to make up for the fact that they had an
underpowered engine and they needed to be able to climb up a bank, so
they used a low gear ratio in the rear end. As these cars are built,
they can't really hold high speed on much over the slightest incline,
so if you were to lower the rear end gear ratio, you would have to
increase the engine power.

John Friese


--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, Ken Chambers <kenneth3@c...>
wrote:
> Pulled out my Triumph Spitfire repair manual and looked up some
numbers to compare engine speeds with the
> Amphi.
>
> First some facts on the model years and engine sizes:
> Mk1 Oct 62 1147cc (70.0 cu in)
> Mk2 Mar 65 1147
> Mk3 Mar 67 1296cc (79.2)
> Mk4 Oct 70 1296
> 1500 73-81 1493cc (91.0)
>
> Spitfire Gearbox ratios:
> 1st 3.50:1 (3.75:1 on Mk1-4 models)
> 2nd 2.16:1
> 3rd 1.39:1
> 4th 1.00:1
>
> 1500 Final drive: 3.89:1
> 1500 overdrive: .79:1
>
> 1500 combined 4th gear ratio: 3.10:1
>
> Spitfire tire size 155SR13, 22" Dia, 60.1"Cir.
> A 22" tire at 70mph spins at 1070 rpm
> Therefore the Spitfire engine at 70mph rotates at 3317 rpm
>
>
> Amphicar gearbox ratios:
> 1st 4.50:1
> 2nd 2.91:1
> 3rd 1.75:1
> 4th 1.05:1
> Final drive 4.72:1
>
> Combined 4th gear ratio: 4.96:1
>
> Amphicar tire size 6.50-13, 24" Dia, 75.4" Cir.
> A 24" tire at 70mph spins at 980 rpm
> Therefore the Amphicar engine at 70mph rotates at 4860 rpm.
>
> So you can see that our Amphicar engines spin 46% faster than that
of the Spitfire (and most other cars) at the
> same highway speed. I don't know what the designers were thinking
to want the engine to rotate so fast.
>
> BTW, http://www.triumphspitfire.com has lots of good info on the
Spitfire.
>
> Ken Chambers
> '64 Red
>
>
>
>
> > All of my considerable research into the 1500 told me that a 1500
> > running at high speed in an Amphicar, won't last long. The difference
> > between the Spitfire and the Amphicar is the rear end ratio and I
> > know no way around the problem. 65 MPH is considered the fastest that
> > you can continuously run a 1500 in an Amphi. Lot's of people in the
> > German club can attest to this.
> >
> > John Friese

 

[David Chapman]

Re: Re: final drive ratios

Couple of comments about this, the 1500 is not a good engine, it was designed
by accountants, plenty of torque but it has too much mass on the crankshaft and
so doesn't rev, not much of an issue in a Spittie but a pain in Amphicar, also
because of extra friction due to large rotating mass it runs hotter.

Amphicar isn't low powered by standards of the day in Europe, 43hp from 1147cc
was state of the art in 1962. The 1147 is a good match for Amphicar, it will
safely run at over 5000rpm and still be reasonably smooth.

There are 3 main reasons why Amphicar is low geared:

1. It was designed for the US 55mph speed limit and not the 70mph limits in
Europe that most European cars were designed for.

2. Because of US target market Amphicar would have liked to use auto
transmission but technology not available, one document I've seen says 1st gear
is for coming out of slipways, 2nd gear is a starter gear, 3rd gear is for use
in towns and 4th gear for highway. It's certainly true you can drive everywhere
in 3rd if you have to and I think the aim was to imply you really didn't need a
lot of experience of "stick shift" to drive Amphicar.

3. Although sold as a "sportscar with independent suspension" the brakes,
chassis and general handling of Amphicar can become a bit of a handfull at high
speed another reason to keep the gearing low.


David C

 

[WB6WSN]

Re: Re: final drive ratios

----- Original Message -----
From: David Chapman
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: [amphicar-lovers] Re: final drive ratios


Couple of comments about this, the 1500 is not a good engine, it was designed
by accountants, plenty of torque but it has too much mass on the crankshaft
and
so doesn't rev, not much of an issue in a Spittie but a pain in Amphicar, also
because of extra friction due to large rotating mass it runs hotter.

Amphicar isn't low powered by standards of the day in Europe, 43hp from 1147cc
was state of the art in 1962. The 1147 is a good match for Amphicar, it will
safely run at over 5000rpm and still be reasonably smooth.

There are 3 main reasons why Amphicar is low geared:

1. It was designed for the US 55mph speed limit and not the 70mph limits in
Europe that most European cars were designed for.


David:

Not quite true. Back in 1960, American interstate highways were all typically 70
MPH, and with 80 MPH in some sections. Typical US and state highways were 65
MPH. The speed limits weren't dropped until the first oil scare, around 1973(?),
and then it was done for oil conservation, not safety.

BTW, nobody drives 55 MPH over here, unless it's a school zone.<g>

My opinion on Amphi gearing is that the high differential ratio was chosen for
desired torque at low speed, with a constraint on trans output shaft size. The
high-ratio 1st gear was also chosen for high torque (how else do you get nearly
3000 pounds to climb a 45 degree slope with 35 HP!?). Also remember that much
bank-climbing would be expected at much less than max horsepower RPM (you don't
climb the bank at 3500 RPM and 20 MPH land speed), so the ratios had to be
chosen to give decent torque at more like 1800 engine RPM.

As to why the 4th gear ratio wasn't a bit lower, maybe almost an overdrive, I
don't know. I suppose, for USA marketing, an Amphi had to appear to be capable
of "sports car" cruising speed, but in reality, considering the Amphi's mass,
suspension, wheelbase and center of gravity, only a very daring person
(nutcase?) would try 70 MPH.

Ed
El Cajon
67 Rust Guppy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

[John Friese]

Ed,
I've driven from Santa Barbara to Puddingston three times in my stock
Amphi and once in my 1296 Amphi, with the radial tires. That's about
300 miles round trip for each drive and most all of it on freeways. I
routinely do 70 MPH in my stock Amphi, with the bias ply tires, and
about 75 in the one with the bigger engine. Both cars are completely
stable and solid when running at these speeds. When these cars are
set up right, they handle just fine at highway speeds. Given their
narrow wheel base and height, I don't expect them to handle like a
Corvette. I think of them more like driving a small SUV, without the
power.

John Friese
Red 67
White 67



considering the Amphi's mass, suspension, wheelbase and center of
gravity, only a very daring person (nutcase?) would try 70 MPH.
>
> Ed
> El Cajon
> 67 Rust Guppy

 

[a_colo_native]

>>only a very daring person (nutcase?) would try 70 MPH.


Ed,

That would be me! <g> If the road surface is smoooooth (IE - new
pavement), I take mine to 70 sometimes. Mostly, I cruise at 60-ish.

John "Nutcase?" Bevins

 

[rogtwo@aol.com]

Re: Re: final drive ratios

Ed,

I would agree with your analysis of the high ratio (low gearing) in the
Amphicar differential.

But, my answer as to why 4th gear isn't "lower ratio" (an overdrive), is that
it is already a stretch from third to forth gear. Third gear can only be
used to a maximum speed of 35 to 40 mph (that little engine is really screaming
at 40), and at 35 mph in 4th gear, the engine has little torque.

I find that if I can't hold 50 mph or so on a long hill, I will be forced to
drop to third and do the remainder of the hill at 35 mph. If 4th gear were
pushed to an overdrive, this gap would be even worse. It would become difficult
or impossible to get from third to forth gear if you were climbing any hill
at all.

A 5 speed transmission would have been great, but given the limitation of a 4
speed transmission and small engine, I think the gear ratios picked are the
best possible.

Roger
White '63
Seattle

In a message dated 10/31/03 9:46:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, wb6wsn@cox.net
writes:
As to why the 4th gear ratio wasn't a bit lower, maybe almost an overdrive, I
don't know. I suppose, for USA marketing, an Amphi had to appear to be
capable of "sports car" cruising speed, but in reality, considering the Amphi's
mass, suspension, wheelbase and center of gravity, only a very daring person
(nutcase?) would try 70 MPH.

Ed
El Cajon
67 Rust Guppy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

[tommyintpa@aol.com]

Re: Re: final drive ratios

In a message dated 11/2/03 2:40:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, rogtwo@aol.com
writes:


> Third gear can only be used to a maximum speed of 35 to 40 mph (that little
> engine is really screaming at 40), and at 35 mph in 4th gear, the engine has
> little torque.
>
>
> Roger
> White '63
> Seattle

Hi Roger,
I understand the Amphi engineers intended third gear shift point to be more
like 45 mph. David Chapman was saying that all city driving below 45 mph was
to be done in third gear. Fourth was for the highway. First gear was only for
exiting waterways, second is your "startout" gear for the roadway, third was
for city driving up to 45 MPH and fourth was for the highway.
David said it was an effort to minimize shifting because many sports cars of
the day were going to automatic transmissions.
You can wind your little Amphi up to 45 is third I always do, but I may be a
nutcase. Who's to say?
Tommy in Tampa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

[nelson625@aol.com]

Re: Re: final drive ratios

As anyone can tell, I do not get on line very often and a number of
e-mails pile up. Regarding the discusssion of gear ratios and final gearing,
I
personally also find the selected ratios to be surprisingly satisfactory. On
level ground, I generally skip 2nd gear and go straight from 1st to 3rd,
carrying 3rd to 30-35 mph. I've asked a few others, including Gord Souter when
he
rode with me at Mount Dora whether others frequently skip a gear and I conclude
that some do and some don't. On the highway, I usually limit my speed to 55
mph though occasionaly I drift a bit higher. I figure that at a 55 cruising
maximum, the engine will probably last longer before problems show up. In the
water, I try not to get up and plane ! Just another opinion.
On a different subject, from the Lilliput Model Company, I ordered a
model of the Schwimwagen as well as what I thought was the DUKW (commonly called
a
DUCK.- presumably because of the way personnel pronounced DUKW). Except that
these are only 1/32nd scale and I much prefer 1/18th, the 2 models are very
nice and well detailed. HOWEVER, I did not look closely at the picture in the
catalog and though it is referred to as an Amphibian 1944 Normandy "Duck," it
is in fact the Ford GPA vehicle built to carry mainly 2 people, so it is not
the DUKW at all. I do not believe the GPA's were generally ever referred to as
Ducks. Comments? At any rate, I am not unhappy to have the GPA model, but
would like someone to also produce a model of the genuine DUKW. Obviously, the
models are much cheaper than their bigger cousins !

Vic "Splash" Nelson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

[Jon March]

If i comment on this thread... who is still recieving notices?
Ed, Tommy, Ken, David?

I have a thought no one has mentioned:
Since 2nd, 3rd, and frankly 4th are all useable in-town
and since making just 4th taller would cause a hiway/hill power-"hole"....
....what are your thoughts re-swapping 3rd AND 4th out for taller ratios from a (porsche/other) gear vendor?
(ps - the case is very tight near 4th gear on the main/input shaft: i believe that to fit a larger diameter 4th gear, the case would need to be machined or a bump welded in for "headroom" - not a big compromise, if this helped bring rpm/s & noise down (especially for 1500 users!)
?

 

[lelms]

Jon - I read these posts, but many posts, like your wanting to replace 4th gear, are over my head, or more to the point, something I have no interest in doing to my Amphi, since it is used solely for a leisurely drive to the lake, a few times each summer. (Minnesota). Probably the biggest impediment to responding to postings is the requirement to have a "single use code" that is emailed. On my phone, (android), there is no way that I know of, to see two emails at once, so I can never access the code and proceed. It would be helpful for Luddites like me, if the code could be texted, so I could access the forum on my phone. Well, I can access it, just cannot actually log in to respond to any postings. Maybe all on the post are better off if I don't, since I leave anything complicated up to my trusty mechanic, and probably just clog up the system with my comments.

 

[Jon March]

Lol - hmm: i dont know this single-use-code of which you speak , nor the phone-issue re: seeing 2 emails at once.
Being an Iphone person, maybe its an odd android thing? - But I 100% hear ya about having the experts do things
This is one of those custom topics that even most gurus dont have the time to explore, so it comes down to a select DIY few that have the time and curiosity to contribute thoughts to - 100% fine for others ot skip on past!
...Happy New Year 2020 !