Engine Dies When Hot

B

Bihari, James

Guest
<table dir="ltr">
I need the infinite wisdom of the group to help me figure out what is causingmy Amphiengine to die when
it gets hot. It doens't seem to be caused by a lack of fuel or a lack of spark. For the second weekend in a row, I was almost able to take the car out for the first time in the water. This time, before we were set to go, I drove a 3 mile loop on country roads around the my parents' house, took it up to 55 and it ran great. Came back and loaded up, then our 4 car caravan headed out to the lake about 15 miles away. It made it
through 3 miles of city trafficokay, then we had to go on some country roads with steep slopes. On the
first steep hill, it started acting like is was starved for fuel, so I figured it was aclogged fuel filter (since the
paint guys had put some Eastman gas tank stuff inside the tank and some of it was peeling off I could see).
Tried to drive a little more, stopped a few times. Each time it would run for a while and then die.
Not sure of the temperature because I guess my temperature sending unit is bad. Wechecked the
fuel filter (which I put just below the tank) and it was fine, we bypassed the little solenoid gas shut off switch, and it turned out there was no clog in the stainless steel fuel line running to the back.We found
that even when it wasn't starting, you could pull on the throttle linkage and a healthy squirt of gasoline was
being shot into the carburetor. When trying to turn over the engine, you could pull off a spark plug wire and see a very good spark jumping across. Wewe hadfuel and we had spark but it just wouldn't start.

We went to get a tow dolly and as I predicted, an hourlater, when we got back, it started right up andran
fine.A week earlier, when I drove it 3 miles to the windowplace, it died in front of there shop. 2 hours
later when I came back to get the car (I changed the fuel filter even though it didn't seem to be the problem) and it started right up and drove homefine. There seems to be something that kills the engine when it gets hot and it acts like it's not getting fuel, but it is getting fuel and it has good spark. At first my Dad thought
it was vapor lock, but can vapor lock happenon a car that is running? ( I thoughtthat only happend after
you tried to restart a hot car.My 50 Buick used to overheat and then vapor lock when I tried to start it.
I found that a can of air (like "Dust-A-Way" or "Blow Off!" ) used to clean computer or camera equipment can be inverted and will spray out VERY COLD stuff that will quickly cool a metal fuel line to "fix" a vapor lock situation.) And how can it be vapor lock if you can see gasoline being squirted into the carb?

I've heard of things like a coil shorting out when it gets hot, but if that were the case here, I don't think you'd
see such a good spark. Some background. My car has the original 1147 cc engine and I believe it to
be a very low mileage car (at least on land--I think it was used primarily as a boat). We don't think the car was running for 30 years before we got it. We did nothing to the engine, except put in a new thermostat, new points and condenser, and one freeze plug. And we put on a rebuild carburetor we got from Gordons, since it was missing its carb. We had to do a lot of adjusting of the distributor, as it was it would have been firing at the wrong time they way someone who had it before me left it. But we got it adjusted to where the timing lightwould fire at however many degrees it's supposed to be before top dead center. Anyway, it just took some messing with the distributor to get it to fire right up and run fine. The two trips I've described are the only driving I've ever done with it (and taken together have doubled the number of miles that the odometer showns!)

We were wondering if there could be some way that the heat is causing the timing to go off somehow.
If you have fuel and spark and it doesn't run, isn't the timing about the only other thing that could cause
it not to run. That and the fact that the previous owner had the distributor rotating around enough that
the timing was way off makes us wonder if that had something to do with it. When you buy a car that
hasn't been run for 30 years, you kind of wonder what it was that took the car off the road (or out of the
water) and why it was that no one got it running in all that time. Maybe it was some mysterious problem
like this, but I sure hope it's something simple that one of you guys can figure out.

Have other folks had trouble with the engine running great when cold and then dying when it warms up?
Have other folks installed auxilliary fans to keep the engine bay cooler? The manifold to exhaust pipe
gasket in mine is leaking and I guess that could contribute some heat, but I don't know that there is
is anything else that is making it get too hot. The radiator is not overheating or anything. We were
thinking of trying to get two auxilliary fans each about 7 inch diameter to mount to the louvers on
either side of the hood to blow air out of the engine compartment.

Totally unrelated tothis: As I was reinstalling all the door hardware, I was confused why the passenger
side door could be locked bypulling the handle back, but the driver's side door could not. At first
I thought I installed something wrong,butItook both side back apart and saw that the driver's
side door lock handle mechanism has one extra rivet in it that prevents the handle from being pulled back
into thelock position like the passenger side. That is very odd. Whatgood does that do? It doesn't
keep you from locking yourself out of your car, it just prevents the driver from locking the door while
he/she is inside (without using a keyand reaching out through the window.) I was thinking of drilling
out that rivet toalllow it to lock like the passenger side. Anyone else do this?
Mostly, I hope that one of you has the answer to the mystery of why my car won't run once it warms up.
Many thanks in advance for any advice.

Jim Bihari
 
A

a_colo_native

Guest
Jim -

Go with the coil first. It's the easiest and least expensive. Worst
case, you'll have a spare you may need some day. It sure sounds like
it could be the culprit.

Check your distributer cap for cracks too. They can be VERY small
until the car warms up and it expands causing it to short. You can
find it by having a friend grab the cab while the car is wrm and
running. Watch for the tell-tale jerking back of the arm, followed
closely by cursing in your general direction. This is a sure sign the
cap has a crack in it. ;)

If you use carbon core plug wires rather than solid core, a condition
called "Carbon tracing" can occur. It creates a microscopic line of
carbon (conductive) that creates a short across the surface of the
cap. It will cause the car to miss and sometimes die.

John "Don't ask me how I know this" Bevins
 
D

David Chapman

Guest
?
<table dir="ltr" bgColor="#ffffff">
<font face="Arial" size="2">Fuel vapourisation. You are getting fuel in to the carb but the body of the carb will be hot (especially if manifold is leaking - you need to fix that) and that is causing the vapour lock inside the body of the carb. All the symptoms then fit. An aluminiumheat shield under carb will help. Recheck the ignition timing using static method and check dwell as if too far advanced it will run much hotter. Vapour lock on Amphicars tends to happen at 50+mph and with air temp over 28c (think that's 80 something in farenheight). If you are sure it's not fuel change the HT leads, cap, rotor arm and coil. </font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2">David C</font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"></font>
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<div style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: Bihari, James
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com ; amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">Cc: jbihari@optometry.osu.edu
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 8:00 PM
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: [amphicar-lovers] Engine dies when hot


I need the infinite wisdom of the group to help me figure out what is causingmy Amphiengine to die when
it gets hot. It doens't seem to be caused by a lack of fuel or a lack of spark. For the second weekend in a row, I was almost able to take the car out for the first time in the water. This time, before we were set to go, I drove a 3 mile loop on country roads around the my parents' house, took it up to 55 and it ran great. Came back and loaded up, then our 4 car caravan headed out to the lake about 15 miles away. It made it
through 3 miles of city trafficokay, then we had to go on some country roads with steep slopes. On the
first steep hill, it started acting like is was starved for fuel, so I figured it was aclogged fuel filter (since the
paint guys had put some Eastman gas tank stuff inside the tank and some of it was peeling off I could see).
Tried to drive a little more, stopped a few times. Each time it would run for a while and then die.
Not sure of the temperature because I guess my temperature sending unit is bad. Wechecked the
fuel filter (which I put just below the tank) and it was fine, we bypassed the little solenoid gas shut off switch, and it turned out there was no clog in the stainless steel fuel line running to the back.We found
that even when it wasn't starting, you could pull on the throttle linkage and a healthy squirt of gasoline was
being shot into the carburetor. When trying to turn over the engine, you could pull off a spark plug wire and see a very good spark jumping across. Wewe hadfuel and we had spark but it just wouldn't start.

We went to get a tow dolly and as I predicted, an hourlater, when we got back, it started right up andran
fine.A week earlier, when I drove it 3 miles to the windowplace, it died in front of there shop. 2 hours
later when I came back to get the car (I changed the fuel filter even though it didn't seem to be the problem) and it started right up and drove homefine. There seems to be something that kills the engine when it gets hot and it acts like it's not getting fuel, but it is getting fuel and it has good spark. At first my Dad thought
it was vapor lock, but can vapor lock happenon a car that is running? ( I thoughtthat only happend after
you tried to restart a hot car.My 50 Buick used to overheat and then vapor lock when I tried to start it.
I found that a can of air (like "Dust-A-Way" or "Blow Off!" ) used to clean computer or camera equipment can be inverted and will spray out VERY COLD stuff that will quickly cool a metal fuel line to "fix" a vapor lock situation.) And how can it be vapor lock if you can see gasoline being squirted into the carb?

I've heard of things like a coil shorting out when it gets hot, but if that were the case here, I don't think you'd
see such a good spark. Some background. My car has the original 1147 cc engine and I believe it to
be a very low mileage car (at least on land--I think it was used primarily as a boat). We don't think the car was running for 30 years before we got it. We did nothing to the engine, except put in a new thermostat, new points and condenser, and one freeze plug. And we put on a rebuild carburetor we got from Gordons, since it was missing its carb. We had to do a lot of adjusting of the distributor, as it was it would have been firing at the wrong time they way someone who had it before me left it. But we got it adjusted to where the timing lightwould fire at however many degrees it's supposed to be before top dead center. Anyway, it just took some messing with the distributor to get it to fire right up and run fine. The two trips I've described are the only driving I've ever done with it (and taken together have doubled the number of miles that the odometer showns!)

We were wondering if there could be some way that the heat is causing the timing to go off somehow.
If you have fuel and spark and it doesn't run, isn't the timing about the only other thing that could cause
it not to run. That and the fact that the previous owner had the distributor rotating around enough that
the timing was way off makes us wonder if that had something to do with it. When you buy a car that
hasn't been run for 30 years, you kind of wonder what it was that took the car off the road (or out of the
water) and why it was that no one got it running in all that time. Maybe it was some mysterious problem
like this, but I sure hope it's something simple that one of you guys can figure out.

Have other folks had trouble with the engine running great when cold and then dying when it warms up?
Have other folks installed auxilliary fans to keep the engine bay cooler? The manifold to exhaust pipe
gasket in mine is leaking and I guess that could contribute some heat, but I don't know that there is
is anything else that is making it get too hot. The radiator is not overheating or anything. We were
thinking of trying to get two auxilliary fans each about 7 inch diameter to mount to the louvers on
either side of the hood to blow air out of the engine compartment.

Totally unrelated tothis: As I was reinstalling all the door hardware, I was confused why the passenger
side door could be locked bypulling the handle back, but the driver's side door could not. At first
I thought I installed something wrong,butItook both side back apart and saw that the driver's
side door lock handle mechanism has one extra rivet in it that prevents the handle from being pulled back
into thelock position like the passenger side. That is very odd. Whatgood does that do? It doesn't
keep you from locking yourself out of your car, it just prevents the driver from locking the door while
he/she is inside (without using a keyand reaching out through the window.) I was thinking of drilling
out that rivet toalllow it to lock like the passenger side. Anyone else do this?
Mostly, I hope that one of you has the answer to the mystery of why my car won't run once it warms up.
Many thanks in advance for any advice.

Jim Bihari
 
L

Larry & Nancy Solheim

Guest
Re: Re: Engine dies when hot

How about missing (when hot) when the headlights are turned on, John? Turning off the lights solves this intermittent engine problem, but certainly creates others (particularly at night)!

--Larry

a_colo_native <colo_frontrange@netzero.net> wrote:
<blockquote class="replbq" style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><tt>Jim -

Go with the coil first. It's the easiest and least expensive. Worst
case, you'll have a spare you may need some day. It sure sounds like
it could be the culprit.

Check your distributer cap for cracks too. They can be VERY small
until the car warms up and it expands causing it to short. You can
find it by having a friend grab the cab while the car is wrm and
running. Watch for the tell-tale jerking back of the arm, followed
closely by cursing in your general direction. This is a sure sign the
cap has a crack in it. ;)

If you use carbon core plug wires rather than solid core, a condition
called "Carbon tracing" can occur. It creates a microscopic line of
carbon (conductive) that creates a short across the surface of the
cap. It will cause the car to miss and sometimes die.

John "Don't ask me how I know this"
Bevins


</tt></blockquote>


<hr size="1">Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
 
M

Marc Schlemmer

Guest
- a quick thing to check....

Notice that the fuel line from the pump to the carb runs near the
manifold. It gets hot. Some people have put a heat shield along that
area to keep the line cool. Maybe your line is a little closer to the
hot manifold than it should be. In inch closer than it should be might
make a big difference. Make sure that the line isn't tight against the
engine anywhere. It should be away wherever possible so that air can
flow around it to keep it cool. I don't have a heat shield added, but
my fuel line is not even close to the engine manifold or head.

Marc Schlemmer.
 
M

Mike Israel

Guest
You can get a vapor lock while driving. My old
Spitfire with side draft carbs used to do this all the
time. You would be cruising along the highway and
suddenly it was like you ran out of gas. Repriming a
side draft carb is not fun!

Make sure none of your fuel lines are resting on
anything hot like the engine.

Mike I.

--- "Bihari, James" <jbihari@optometry.osu.edu> wrote:

> I need the infinite wisdom of the group to help me
> figure out what is causing
> my Amphi engine to die when
> it gets hot.
 
A

Al Heath

Guest
<table>


I'd replace the coil wire from the distributor to the coil. Also changing the cap & rotor is cheap, but I'd try the main wire first. By the way, it never hurts to carry a spare cap & wires (all made up ready to just plug in) and a spare rotor you know works.



Al
 
M

Mark Richardson

Guest
Jim,

I may not have infinite wisdom, but I had the same thing happen with
my car. I think David C has the same opinion as me, it is hot hot
hot and getting "the vapors".

Here is a list of what I did to solve the problem:
1. Electric fuel pump -the most important thing I did.
2. Electric fan on radiator
3. Heat shield on carb base
4. Header wrap on entire exhaust system
5. Fuel line heat shield sheath
6. Professionally boiled and repainted radiator
7. Water Wetter in radiator
8. New seals on radiator shroud
9. Richen fuel mixture a bit
10. Removed thermostat (for awhile)

As you can tell, I had quite a battle with this problem. It has not
left me stranded since but it still runs hot and is a little hard to
start when run hard, but the electric pump makes it all happen (a
tip I got from the Guru himself a long time ago).
Good luck and let us know how the battle ends up.
Mark Richardson



--- In amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com, "Bihari, James"
<jbihari@o...> wrote:
> I need the infinite wisdom of the group to help me figure out what
is causing
> my Amphi engine to die when
> it gets hot. >
> Jim Bihari
 
S

steve reich

Guest
<table>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="515330902-28092005">Hi-</span></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="515330902-28092005"></span></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="515330902-28092005">For what it's worth, my car lost power and stalled when it was hot outside. Not fun when your on a San Diego freeway. Temperature gauge showed that it was hotter than normal, but it wasn't pegged to the end. Someone suggested I switch from regular gas to premium because the higher octane runs cooler. Made the switch and ever since it's been OK.</span></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="515330902-28092005"></span></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="515330902-28092005">Perhaps not the infinite wisdom you were looking for, but my personal experience.</span></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="515330902-28092005"></span></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="515330902-28092005">-Steve</span></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="515330902-28092005"></span></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="515330902-28092005">'64 red (AMPHICR)</span></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="515330902-28092005">'64 red (I SWIM 2)</span></font>
<font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="515330902-28092005">Del Mar,CA</span></font>
 
G

glennyrosa@comcast.net

Guest
<table>
Hey Jim:

I'm pretty new to this vehicle with the identity crisis and haven't had the problems you describe. I did have a similar problem with a VW bug at high altitudesand all it took was to change service stations. I have a problem with vapor lock on a mini van now. Won't start when it's hot. Only happens when I use Texeco fuel. Old fuel or inexpesive fuels can cause vapor lock when the active ingredient that helps reduce vapor pressure evaporates away and lowers the boiling point of the fuel.

I burn Av Gas 100LL in my red '64. My car is pretty much stock and hasn't seen the road since unleaded fuel came out. It's a little more expensive but cheaper than a rebuilt head right now. Av Gas is great stuff. It has stuff in it that increases storage life more than double from what you get at the pump. After a winter of sitting the Amphi fires right up. So do my lawn mowers, chain saws and weed whackers.No more gummy stuff in the carb.Av Gas also has something in it to increase vapor pressure which increases the fuels boiling temp. Very important when airplanes fly to altitude and the boiling temp drops. That's also the problem these aircraft owners trying to save a dime find out when they burn Mo Gas in their planes and the engine quits over the San Juaquin Valley in August. Very embarrassing.

Snow mobilers swear by AvGas. They run very high temps at high altitudes. Bad place to get stuck with vapor lock.

Go to your local airport operator with your 5 gallon cans. Tell them it's for your snow mobile, dirt bike, or sprint racecar. They won't fill your car there because there's no road tax added to AvGas in most states and the operator could be hit with severe fines. Nevada had the road tax on AvGas which aircraft owners could apply for a refund by mail. Few did and the state made a lot of free money.

Switching to premium fuel may help if you can't find AvGas.

That's my experience with vapor lock. Cheap fuel. And it sounds as if your vehicle has all the signs of vapor lock.

Good luck,

glenn

<blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message --------------

I need the infinite wisdom of the group to help me figure out what is causingmy Amphiengine to die when
it gets hot. It doens't seem to be caused by a lack of fuel or a lack of spark. For the second weekend in a row, I was almost able to take the car out for the first time in the water. This time, before we were set to go, I drove a 3 mile loop on country roads around the my parents' house, took it up to 55 and it ran great. Came back and loaded up, then our 4 car caravan headed out to the lake about 15 miles away. It made it
through 3 miles of city trafficokay, then we had to go on some country roads with steep slopes. On the
first steep hill, it started acting like is was starved for fuel, so I figured it was aclogged fuel filter (since the
paint guys had put some Eastman gas tank stuff inside the tank and some of it was peeling off I could see).
Tried to drive a little more, stopped a few times. Each time it would run for a while and then die.
Not sure of the temperature because I guess my temperature sending unit is bad. Wechecked the
fuel filter (which I put just below the tank) and it was fine, we bypassed the little solenoid gas shut off switch, and it turned out there was no clog in the stainless steel fuel line running to the back.We found
that even when it wasn't starting, you could pull on the throttle linkage and a healthy squirt of gasoline was
being shot into the carburetor. When trying to turn over the engine, you could pull off a spark plug wire and see a very good spark jumping across. Wewe hadfuel and we had spark but it just wouldn't start.

We went to get a tow dolly and as I predicted, an hourlater, when we got back, it started right up andran
fine.A week earlier, when I drove it 3 miles to the windowplace, it died in front of there shop. 2 hours
later when I came back to get the car (I changed the fuel filter even though it didn't seem to be the problem) and it started right up and drove homefine. There seems to be something that kills the engine when it gets hot and it acts like it's not getting fuel, but it is getting fuel and it has good spark. At first my Dad thought
it was vapor lock, but can vapor lock happenon a car that is running? ( I thoughtthat only happend after
you tried to restart a hot car.My 50 Buick used to overheat and then vapor lock when I tried to start it.
I found that a can of air (like "Dust-A-Way" or "Blow Off!" ) used to clean computer or camera equipment can be inverted and will spray out VERY COLD stuff that will quickly cool a metal fuel line to "fix" a vapor lock situation.) And how can it be vapor lock if you can see gasoline being squirted into the carb?

I've heard of things like a coil shorting out when it gets hot, but if that were the case here, I don't think you'd
see such a good spark. Some background. My car has the original 1147 cc engine and I believe it to
be a very low mileage car (at least on land--I think it was used primarily as a boat). We don't think the car was running for 30 years before we got it. We did nothing to the engine, except put in a new thermostat, new points and condenser, and one freeze plug. And we put on a rebuild carburetor we got from Gordons, since it was missing its carb. We had to do a lot of adjusting of the distributor, as it was it would have been firing at the wrong time they way someone who had it before me left it. But we got it adjusted to where the timing lightwould fire at however many degrees it's supposed to be before top dead center. Anyway, it just took some messing with the distributor to get it to fire right up and run fine. The two trips I've described are the only driving I've ever done with it (and taken together have doubled the number of miles that the odometer showns!)

We were wondering if there could be some way that the heat is causing the timing to go off somehow.
If you have fuel and spark and it doesn't run, isn't the timing about the only other thing that could cause
it not to run. That and the fact that the previous owner had the distributor rotating around enough that
the timing was way off makes us wonder if that had something to do with it. When you buy a car that
hasn't been run for 30 years, you kind of wonder what it was that took the car off the road (or out of the
water) and why it was that no one got it running in all that time. Maybe it was some mysterious problem
like this, but I sure hope it's something simple that one of you guys can figure out.

Have other folks had trouble with the engine running great when cold and then dying when it warms up?
Have other folks installed auxilliary fans to keep the engine bay cooler? The manifold to exhaust pipe
gasket in mine is leaking and I guess that could contribute some heat, but I don't know that there is
is anything else that is making it get too hot. The radiator is not overheating or anything. We were
thinking of trying to get two auxilliary fans each about 7 inch diameter to mount to the louvers on
either side of the hood to blow air out of the engine compartment.

Totally unrelated tothis: As I was reinstalling all the door hardware, I was confused why the passenger
side door could be locked bypulling the handle back, but the driver's side door could not. At first
I thought I installed something wrong,butItook both side back apart and saw that the driver's
side door lock handle mechanism has one extra rivet in it that prevents the handle from being pulled back
into thelock position like the passenger side. That is very odd. Whatgood does that do? It doesn't
keep you from locking yourself out of your car, it just prevents the driver from locking the door while
he/she is inside (without using a keyand reaching out through the window.) I was thinking of drilling
out that rivet toalllow it to lock like the passenger side. Anyone else do this?
Mostly, I hope that one of you has the answer to the mystery of why my car won't run once it warms up.
Many thanks in advance for any advice.

Jim Bihari




</blockquote></meta>
 
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