Electrical help for Chuck

[Michael Echemann]

Chuck:
I'm really not sure. I'm pretty good with everything automotive but
electrical problems are an exception. My knowledge is only good enough to
be dangerous and you don't need that right now. It seems as if it's a
problem caused by the dist. movement however I'm not sure why this would
cause it. Did any wires come off when you were making the adjustments? Did
you reconnect any removed wires correctly? I'm sure you did so this is
probably not the problem.

I hope you don't mind but lets send this one to the group. There's tons
of expert advice out there and it sounds like you need suggestions quickly.
Can anyone post some suggestions for Chuck.
Thanks, Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: <TAZMAN3115@aol.com>
To: <echemike@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:16 PM
Subject: electrical question


> Hi again Mike,
> I need help by the weekend if possible as I wanted to take the
car
> up to my in laws cottage on a small inland lake. The car was running very
> well after Dave's
> meet and last night I pulled the distributor and rotated the gear 1 tootth
> advanced
> and reassembled. So far so good. After ashort crank and no start I moved
the
> distrib towards retard and tried again. It fired up and ran for about 8
> seconds and felt like it had a lot more power. Took foot off gas and it
> stalled. Upon recranking
> it cranked hard like the distib had moved and was too advanced, let go of
key
> and it kept cranking for a few more seconds by itself and the battery
cables
> started to smoke and the insulation started to melt. HELP!!!!!! The
solenoid
> would only click
> after that. I put in a brand new battery today, tried again with only
three
> clicks of the solenoid and the cables got super hot again and all the
> insulation on the new negative cable melted off almost immediately. Just
> before the meet at Dave's I had installed a new starter solenoid and had
> rebiult the starter. Any thoughts? Could the solinoid have just fried? The
> points did not fuse together. Yes the battery cables are on correctly and
> were not touched before or after the dist. gear rotation.
>

 

[Ed Price]

Chuck:

A few thoughts.

1. The battery cables should not get very hot, and certainly not melt their
insulation, under repeated normal cranking conditions. So something about your
present cranking condition is very abnormal, something is causing far higher
current draw than normal. This may be a short to ground at the solenoid, a short
to ground at the starter terminal, an internal short to ground in the starter
motor, or an internal winding to winding short in the starter motor.

2. Moving on to worse possibilities are that the solenoid & starter are OK, but
the mechanical load on the starter motor is way too high. This could be caused
by starter motor bearing alignment or a problem in the pinion gear.

3. Getting to the frightening part, your engine might now be taking too much
torque to rotate the crankshaft. This could be due to a lot of (bad) mechanical
reasons.

4. No matter what mechanical damage may be inside the engine, the starter is
supposed to stop when you let go of the key. So here's one immediate and known
problem to attack. The starter could continue to run because the key switch is
bad, the solenoid sticks closed, or, the pinion gear stays engaged to the engine
after the engine starts. (It's supposed to disengage from the flywheel ring
gear, but it can get stuck. This will usually cause starter motor damage and
often chew up the pinion and ring gears.)

5. I would remove all four spark plugs, and try to crank the engine again. Take
off the distributor cap too, so you can watch the rotor turning. Listen for
unusual mechanical noise. Does the engine seem to spin rapidly and freely (after
all, now there's no compression load)? This will test the solenoid and starter
and pinion gear system. You should be able to do a bunch of short cranks, with
the starter stopping immediately after key release. Get some confidence that the
engine spins OK, with no grinding sounds. If the engine is making weird sounds,
STOP, and get more professional help.

6. Now, put in the plugs, without hooking up the plug wires. Try cranking again.
Cranking speed and sounds should be like they always have been.

7. Now attach the plug wires (you do have the right sequence?), and try to start
the engine. I think you may have moved the distributor further than you think,
so you may be way out of time. But once you have the starter system working
reliably, you can mess around to find the correct timing. (I assume you have a
dwell meter and a timing light.)

Good luck!

Ed

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Echemann
To: amphicar-lovers@yahoogroups.com ; TAZMAN3115@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:53 PM
Subject: [amphicar-lovers] Electrical help for Chuck


Chuck:
I'm really not sure. I'm pretty good with everything automotive but
electrical problems are an exception. My knowledge is only good enough to
be dangerous and you don't need that right now. It seems as if it's a
problem caused by the dist. movement however I'm not sure why this would
cause it. Did any wires come off when you were making the adjustments? Did
you reconnect any removed wires correctly? I'm sure you did so this is
probably not the problem.

I hope you don't mind but lets send this one to the group. There's tons
of expert advice out there and it sounds like you need suggestions quickly.
Can anyone post some suggestions for Chuck.
Thanks, Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: <TAZMAN3115@aol.com>
To: <echemike@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:16 PM
Subject: electrical question


> Hi again Mike,
> I need help by the weekend if possible as I wanted to take the
car
> up to my in laws cottage on a small inland lake. The car was running very
> well after Dave's
> meet and last night I pulled the distributor and rotated the gear 1 tootth
> advanced
> and reassembled. So far so good. After ashort crank and no start I moved
the
> distrib towards retard and tried again. It fired up and ran for about 8
> seconds and felt like it had a lot more power. Took foot off gas and it
> stalled. Upon recranking
> it cranked hard like the distib had moved and was too advanced, let go of
key
> and it kept cranking for a few more seconds by itself and the battery
cables
> started to smoke and the insulation started to melt. HELP!!!!!! The
solenoid
> would only click
> after that. I put in a brand new battery today, tried again with only
three
> clicks of the solenoid and the cables got super hot again and all the
> insulation on the new negative cable melted off almost immediately. Just
> before the meet at Dave's I had installed a new starter solenoid and had
> rebiult the starter. Any thoughts? Could the solinoid have just fried? The
> points did not fuse together. Yes the battery cables are on correctly and
> were not touched before or after the dist. gear rotation.
>




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