Early Late car differences.

[DavidC]

I've owned at least 10 Amphicars over the past 22 years and there are 3 here at the moment. They have almost all been late model cars and only one has been US spec with a bilge blower.
The St Louis Museum car on Ebay at the moment is fascinating to me as it is so different. It helps they are great photos and it is reasonably original.
Car number 100442 puts it amongst the very first made, that's confirmed by the different horn, notice the concentric rings on the back instead of the more normal slots.
Also, see the different shape rear bumpers, the firewall where the VIN plate fits is different (it's in two parts) and there are other body differences, the kick plate above the pedals is a different pressing, and, the one I hadn't recognised before, the ribbing on the main floor pressing is a totally diffferent patten without that oval section in the middle.
Then, there are the normal early / late car differences like bilge plug, prop shields and heater position.

David C

 

[chasgould]

Hey David,
Where did you find the detailed photos of this Amphicar. I could not
see any other photos on the ebay auction site.
My own 1962 car is number 100872, so it is about 430 many cars after
this one.
Chas

On Dec 9, 2009, at 7:58 PM, DavidC wrote:

> I've owned at least 10 Amphicars over the past 22 years and there
> are 3 here at the moment. They have almost all been late model cars
> and only one has been US spec with a bilge blower.
> The St Louis Museum car on Ebay at the moment is fascinating to me
> as it is so different. It helps they are great photos and it is
> reasonably original.
> Car number 100442 puts it amongst the very first made, that's
> confirmed by the different horn, notice the concentric rings on the
> back instead of the more normal slots.
> Also, see the different shape rear bumpers, the firewall where the
> VIN plate fits is different (it's in two parts) and there are other
> body differences, the kick plate above the pedals is a different
> pressing, and, the one I hadn't recognised before, the ribbing on
> the main floor pressing is a totally diffferent patten without that
> oval section in the middle.
> Then, there are the normal early / late car differences like bilge
> plug, prop shields and heater position.
>
> David C
>
>

 

[DavidC]

Item number 320460021157



David C



Ø Hey David,
Where did you find the detailed photos of this Amphicar. I could not
see any other photos on the ebay auction site.
My own 1962 car is number 100872, so it is about 430 many cars after
this one.
Chas

 

[chasgould]

Yes, I saw the auction, but my auction page only shows a single photo
with none of those details. Am I missing something, or is there a link
to other photos?
Chas

On Dec 10, 2009, at 1:58 AM, DavidC wrote:

> 320460021157

 

[chapron67]

there are a ton of great photos -- you may just have to wait a while for them to download; or perhaps you have an old browser that you need to update (for free -- there should be a drop-down in the browser that will help you upgrade).

g

 

[DavidC]

Chas,



Still working fine for me. Probably just a browser problem, I normally use
Google Chrome for things like this with big pictures.



However I seem to remember that you are a fruit fan so not sure about
Safari, maybe try Firefox !



David C





From: chasgould [mailto:]
Sent: 10 December 2009 14:54
To: david@manbus.com
Subject: SPAM-LOW: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20640] Early Late car
differences.



Yes, I saw the auction, but my auction page only shows a single photo
with none of those details. Am I missing something, or is there a link
to other photos?
Chas

On Dec 10, 2009, at 1:58 AM, DavidC wrote:



Quote:

> 320460021157

 

[Canadian four amphs]

Having seen some real early cars it is neat to see the changes, I sold serial #100056 to Bill.F. and am wooking on #100096 now
I also have #100098 and #100062
100048 is in Fl with Peter.F. and #100042 in Texas

The front hood is different and brakets are 2 bolt instead of 3(I have a spare one of these hoods)Horns as David said,,and yes Floor stamping are almost a X....I can make these out of steel,, I have the later stlte in Glass.
The bracket above the trans, under rear seat is smaller in Dia..
All cars were were made with the prop sheids.. the later ones were removed by cutting off
Early car rear bumpers were found on later models as well. I guess they ran out near end and just grabed whatever.there on Tommys 68,.
The shift rods were legthend to improve shifting on later, I know theres more that what weve all listed so far and will dadd as I think of them.
BTW..61-64 are easyer to restore(no humps, no exra trim on top of doors,and values are the same so keep that in mid for your restoration purchaces.GORD

 

[gzink]

I bought 1005?? last year. Was from dealer in Michigan who kept it all these years. I noticed one other thing. The tail light rubbers are different. There is no edge around them and lens fits tightly to the body. I thought mine were missing the rubbers but I see the same thing on the Ebay car. I will have to go take a lens off to l

--- On Thu, 12/10/09, DavidC <> wrote:

> From: DavidC <>
> Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20640] Early Late car differences.
> To: g_zink_us@yahoo.com
> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 6:58 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Item number 320460021157
>
>
>
>*
>
>
>
> David C
>
>
>
>*
>
>
>
> Ø* Hey David,
>
> Where did you find the detailed photos of this Amphicar. I
> could not
>
> see any other photos on the ebay auction site.
>
> My own 1962 car is number 100872, so it is about 430 many
> cars after
>
> this one.
>
> Chas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>*
>
>

 

[CapnJohn]

I bought 1005?? last year. Was from dealer in Michigan who kept it all these years. I noticed one other thing. The tail light rubbers are different. There is no edge around them and lens fits tightly to the body. I thought mine were missing the rubbers but I see the same thing on the Ebay car. I will have to go take a lens off to l

Greg - It's not that they used a different lens rubber, They were just installed differently. Same piece, but they tucked the edges inside the lens instead of outside.

 

[Canadian four amphs]

THERE ARE 2 different rubbers used on tail lights.
I was just working on my 67 in Fl. and it has the hidden rubbers
they are completly different! in a way I like them better as they show off more chrome on the lens.
I modified the back up light to work as turn and brake with a red LED bulb.
This can only be done if you convert the car to Neg Ground.(LED,s)
GORD

There are 32 messages on this subject, I only get 9 on my Comp.??

 

[CapnJohn]

THERE ARE 2 different rubbers used on tail lights.
I was just working on my 67 in Fl. and it has the hidden rubbers
they are completly different! in a way I like them better as they show off more chrome on the lens.
I modified the back up light to work as turn and brake with a red LED bulb.
This can only be done if you convert the car to Neg Ground.(LED,s)
GORD

Gord, Not to argue with you my friend , but in my experience EVERY single one that I took apart the rubber was EXACTLY the same, no differences what so ever. It was merely tucked inside the lens. It could appear different after being squished for 45 years. What is the difference that you see in yours?

You don't need to convert to (-) ground to use LEDs. Pos or Neg ground doesn't matter only having the correct resistor (so it will work on 12V) and correct dedicated connections matter (+) to (+), (-) to (-).

 

[DavidC]

As this stuff gets archived it's important to correct mistakes.



LED bulbs (which come with the correct resistor built in) work OK in
Amphicar but only on negative ground cars unless you mess about chopping
wires and using insulating washers - and really.. don't do that.



There is one exception, if you have a fibreglass hood on a positive earth
car then you could swop over the connections going to the marine light quite
easily on the underside of the hood to reverse polarity. That's probably
worth doing as the heat from a conventional bulb can kill the marine light.



Re the backup lights, I think LEDs would look horrible in there with the
clear lens !



Personally what I would do if I had an Amphicar in the States is wire the
backup lights as turn signals as in European cars, then fit yellow lenses or
a yellow lamp.



I've never understood the tradition in the States of flashing a brake light
to indicate a turn, seems like an invitation to be rear ended especially on
a slow-ish car.



David C

 

[chapron67]

>>>the tradition in the States of flashing a brake light
to indicate a turn,

never seen or heard of this in 35 years of driving! WHat am I missing?

greg

 

[DavidC]

Greg,



Sorry, forgot to translate "flashing brake light" from English !



Good old Wikipedia says this:



Presently, almost all countries outside North America require that all
front, side and rear turn signals produce amber light. In North America the
rear signals may be amber or red. International proponents of amber rear
signals say they are more easily discernible as turn signals. U.S. studies
in the early 1990s demonstrated improvements in the speed and accuracy of
following drivers' reaction to brake lamps when the turn signals were amber
rather than red. American regulators and other proponents of red rear turn
signals have historically asserted there is no proven benefit to amber
signals. However, a 2008 U.S. study by NHTSA (the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration) suggests vehicles with amber rear signals rather than
red ones are up to 28% less likely to be involved in certain kinds of
collisions, and a 2009 NHTSA study determined there is a significant overall
safety benefit to amber rather than red rear turn signals



David C



From: chapron67 [mailto:]
Sent: 15 December 2009 17:56
To: david@manbus.com
Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20640] Re: Early Late car
differences.

>>>the tradition in the States of flashing a brake light

to indicate a turn,

never seen or heard of this in 35 years of driving! WHat am I missing?

greg

 

[bkahler]

Re: Early Late car differences.

Greg,

There are two wires that feed the brake lights. Each wire is indepentantly
controlled through the turn signal circuit. If no turn signal is on both
wires become hot when the brake pedal is pressed. If the turn signal is
selected left then the left wire is fed to a flasher that causes the brake
light bulb to flash. Same for the right side brake light.

Personally I find this much more noticable than the European method of
having separate usually smaller lights. When using the brake lights to
indicate a turn you will always know where to look on the vehicle ahead of
you for the turn indication.

I guess this is one of those issues where what you're born and raised with
makes the most sense. You'll never get me to agree that the european method
is better

Brad

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:55 PM, chapron67
<>wrote:

> >>>the tradition in the States of flashing a brake light
> to indicate a turn,
>
> never seen or heard of this in 35 years of driving! WHat am I missing?
>
> greg
>
>
>

 

[chasgould]

Re: Early Late car differences.

I agree with David on this one. The amber lens is accepted internationally, and is more recognizable by citizens of every country. In addition, it is an unambiguous signal of an impending turn, as opposed to the brake light which should be completely independent from the turn signals. It makes no sense to flash a brake light for a turn because if one of the brake lights is burned out, it may appear as though the driver is pumping his brakes. In addition, there may be no need to slow or stop from behind a turning vehicle as opposed to being behind a stopping vehicle, so yellow (or amber) is the appropriate colour as it signals "caution", as opposed to "stop".
Chas

Greg,

There are two wires that feed the brake lights. Each wire is indepentantly
controlled through the turn signal circuit. If no turn signal is on both
wires become hot when the brake pedal is pressed. If the turn signal is
selected left then the left wire is fed to a flasher that causes the brake
light bulb to flash. Same for the right side brake light.

Personally I find this much more noticable than the European method of
having separate usually smaller lights. When using the brake lights to
indicate a turn you will always know where to look on the vehicle ahead of
you for the turn indication.

I guess this is one of those issues where what you're born and raised with
makes the most sense. You'll never get me to agree that the european method
is better

Brad

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:55 PM, chapron67
<>wrote:

 

[bkahler]

Re: Early Late car differences.

As I said, this is an issue of what you're raised with is what makes the
most sense. Personally I wouldn't trust a government study if my life
depended on it and in this case it does.

Its kind of like what George Bernard Shaw said, "England and America are two
countries separated by a common language". There are many many more things
than just language that separate us.

To each their own I guess



On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:58 PM, chasgould
<>wrote:

> I agree with David on this one. The amber lens is accepted
> internationally, and is more recognizable by citizens of every country. In
> addition, it is an unambiguous signal of an impending turn, as opposed to
> the brake light which should be completely independent from the turn
> signals. It makes no sense to flash a brake light for a turn because if one
> of the brake lights is burned out, it may appear as though the driver is
> pumping his brakes. In addition, there may be no need to slow or stop from
> behind a turning vehicle as opposed to being behind a stopping vehicle, so
> yellow (or amber) is the appropriate colour as it signals "caution", as
> opposed to "stop".
> Chas
>
>
>
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bkahler* [image: View Post]<http://showthread.php/?p=40987#post40987>
> Greg,
>
> There are two wires that feed the brake lights. Each wire is indepentantly
> controlled through the turn signal circuit. If no turn signal is on both
> wires become hot when the brake pedal is pressed. If the turn signal is
> selected left then the left wire is fed to a flasher that causes the brake
> light bulb to flash. Same for the right side brake light.
>
> Personally I find this much more noticable than the European method of
> having separate usually smaller lights. When using the brake lights to
> indicate a turn you will always know where to look on the vehicle ahead of
> you for the turn indication.
>
> I guess this is one of those issues where what you're born and raised with
> makes the most sense. You'll never get me to agree that the european method
> is better
>
> Brad
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:55 PM, chapron67
> <>wrote:
>
>
>

 

[chapron67]

Turn signals!

Ahhh, under the 'same' lens... I get it.

I have a Citroen DS a well; its rear turn signal is certainly different than the brake light as it's up there beside the rear window!

greg

 

[DavidC]

Re: Early Late car differences.

But last time I was there I remember that the majority of vehicles now on US
roads have amber turn signals which must mean that each year it is more
dangerous for those who don't - especially as new drivers (and those from
the rest of the world) don't expect it.



Amongst new vehicles in the US isn't it just domestic trucks now that don't
use amber ?



Like I said it's an easy modification for Amphicar and so would be one of
the first things I would do if I drove there. If you still need to reverse
at night then put your foot slightly on the brakes - the stop lights
illuminate behind almost as well as the backup lights on US spec Amphis.



There is another reason to change, at least one Amphicar (it was in Hughs
workshop) has been lost in a fire caused by that backup light switch in
front of the transmission. Look at the spark you get when the backup lights
come on, then remember where any leaking fuel collects....



David C





From: bkahler [mailto:]
Sent: 15 December 2009 19:39
To: david@manbus.com
Subject: SPAM-MED: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20640] Re: Early Late
car differences.



As I said, this is an issue of what you're raised with is what makes the
most sense. Personally I wouldn't trust a government study if my life
depended on it and in this case it does.

Its kind of like what George Bernard Shaw said, "England and America are two
countries separated by a common language". There are many many more things
than just language that separate us.

To each their own I guess
<http://www.amphicar770.com/amphicarforum/images/smilies/smile.gif>



On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:58 PM, chasgould
<>wrote:



Quote:

> I agree with David on this one. The amber lens is accepted
> internationally, and is more recognizable by citizens of every country. In
> addition, it is an unambiguous signal of an impending turn, as opposed to
> the brake light which should be completely independent from the turn
> signals. It makes no sense to flash a brake light for a turn because if

one

> of the brake lights is burned out, it may appear as though the driver is
> pumping his brakes. In addition, there may be no need to slow or stop from
> behind a turning vehicle as opposed to being behind a stopping vehicle, so
> yellow (or amber) is the appropriate colour as it signals "caution", as
> opposed to "stop".
> Chas
>
>
>
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bkahler* [image: View

Post]<http://showthread.php/?p=40987#post40987
<http://showthread.php/?p=40987#post40987>> >

> Greg,
>
> There are two wires that feed the brake lights. Each wire is indepentantly
> controlled through the turn signal circuit. If no turn signal is on both
> wires become hot when the brake pedal is pressed. If the turn signal is
> selected left then the left wire is fed to a flasher that causes the brake
> light bulb to flash. Same for the right side brake light.
>
> Personally I find this much more noticable than the European method of
> having separate usually smaller lights. When using the brake lights to
> indicate a turn you will always know where to look on the vehicle ahead of
> you for the turn indication.
>
> I guess this is one of those issues where what you're born and raised with
> makes the most sense. You'll never get me to agree that the european

method

> is better
>
> Brad
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:55 PM, chapron67
> <>wrote:
>
>
>

 

[cigarman]

Yes, Gord You are correct!!! There were 2 different styles of rubber gaskets for the rear tailights. I am looking at them as I type this. I like the looks of the hidden style but I think for keeping water out, I have to go with the outer edge style.

Cigarman