Does This Kind of Bilge Pump Exist

J

John Friese

Guest
I'm looking for an additional bilge pump for my Amphi. What I'd like
is a submersible pump with electronic water sensors built in. To
avoid the on/off cycling that would occur from water sloshing around,
I thought it would be nice if the pump would have buffering
built into the control circuit so that a 10 second delay would occur
before turn on and something like a 5 second delay for turn off. Does
someone make such a thing or will I have to invent it?

John Friese
 
B

Bill Connelly

Guest
I'm looking for an additional bilge pump for my Amphi. What I'd like
is a submersible pump with electronic water sensors built in. To
avoid the on/off cycling that would occur from water sloshing around,
I thought it would be nice if the pump would have buffering
built into the control circuit so that a 10 second delay would occur
before turn on and something like a 5 second delay for turn off. Does
someone make such a thing or will I have to invent it?

John Friese

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I have an automatic float-operated backup bilge pump installed in my own
Amphi, and you can see more details on the setup at
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/8389/autosploodge.html or see it in person
this Labor Day weekend during Billy & Randy's Festival in Mays Landing, New
Jersey (see the Club's 'Events Calendar' at
http://www.amphicar.com/calendar.htm ).

Fact is, the only times I usually take on more than a dribble of water is
when I have three or more fairly large adults and other gear in the car, and
at those times I usually just make a point of running my still-functioning
original pump every couple of minutes. I can easily see when to shut it off
in my rear view mirror because I have installed a bilge spout "elbow" (see
http://www.amphicar.com/ads.htm#elbows for a really nice one). So, my
backup pump is really there just for added piece of mind. I have tested it
in the drink with a controlled leak at water's edge and it works just fine
without additional timers, turning on when the water level in the bilge
reaches about an inch.

If the on/off cycling you mention above ever became an issue, which it
hasn't, I would simply operate the original pump for a couple of seconds and
that would take care of that, since the original pump's inlet filter is set
lower than the backup pump's and would tend to pump out any of the water
likely to cause the automatic pump's float switch to rise. With that said,
this just describes my own preferences and experience in the matter.
Functionally, my backup pump is really just that: a "backup pump". My
original continues to do the real work. That said, I can also appreciate
how one might want to install a second modern pump as one's MAIN pump, with
the original still there as the backup (you DO want SOME backup pump,
right?). In that case, I suppose that on/off cycling might be an annoyance
issue. What one could do in that case would be to install one's new
float-operated pump and run its float switch through some kind of timer
circuit. The same folks who can supply you with the bilge blower fan
timer's vacuum tubes, the Amperite Company (see http://www.amperite.com/ ),
can also supply you with various other timing switch equipment for a variety
of applications. Whatever the specific timing equipment chosen, it should
probably enable the pump to operate not only some period of time after the
float switch opens, but also after it closes too, or you might find yourself
with the same on/off cycling...just with more water in the bilge. Or, you
could perhaps choose a timer that only continues timing towards startup if
the float circuit remains open.

The only real problem I see with any such timer system is that it needlessly
complicates matters, saddling you with more delicate stuff to possibly go
wrong. Whatever timer system might be installed should certainly have a
manual bypass feature.

~Bilgemaster~
 
M

Mike Israel

Guest
John,

WIth the exception of the RuleMate line all of the
RULE automatic bilge pumps work by running briefly
every few minutes at reduced power. They are computer
controlled so that if the impeller senses resistance
(i.e. water) it kicks in the pump. Otherwise it goes
dormant for the next few minutes. Power drain is
minimal (I left mine on for weeks once with no
significant battery drain). More costly than a float
switch but it sounds like what you are looking for.
Check out boatersworld.com or any other marine supply
shop. They will all carry Rule pumps.

Mike Israel
65 Amphi (white)
Amphi List/Digest Admin


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J

John Friese

Guest
--- In amphicar-lovers@y..., "Bill Connelly" <billiam@e...> wrote:
> I'm looking for an additional bilge pump for my Amphi. What I'd
like
> is a submersible pump with electronic water sensors built in. To
> avoid the on/off cycling that would occur from water sloshing
around,
> I thought it would be nice if the pump would have buffering
> built into the control circuit so that a 10 second delay would occur
> before turn on and something like a 5 second delay for turn off.
Does
> someone make such a thing or will I have to invent it?
>
> John Friese
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> I have an automatic float-operated backup bilge pump installed in my
own
> Amphi, and you can see more details on the setup at
> http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/8389/autosploodge.html or see it in
person
> this Labor Day weekend during Billy & Randy's Festival in Mays
Landing, New
> Jersey (see the Club's 'Events Calendar' at
> http://www.amphicar.com/calendar.htm ).
>
> Fact is, the only times I usually take on more than a dribble of
water is
> when I have three or more fairly large adults and other gear in the
car, and
> at those times I usually just make a point of running my
still-functioning
> original pump every couple of minutes. I can easily see when to
shut it off
> in my rear view mirror because I have installed a bilge spout
"elbow" (see
> http://www.amphicar.com/ads.htm#elbows for a really nice one). So,
my
> backup pump is really there just for added piece of mind. I have
tested it
> in the drink with a controlled leak at water's edge and it works
just fine
> without additional timers, turning on when the water level in the
bilge
> reaches about an inch.
>
> If the on/off cycling you mention above ever became an issue, which
it
> hasn't, I would simply operate the original pump for a couple of
seconds and
> that would take care of that, since the original pump's inlet filter
is set
> lower than the backup pump's and would tend to pump out any of the
water
> likely to cause the automatic pump's float switch to rise. With
that said,
> this just describes my own preferences and experience in the matter.
> Functionally, my backup pump is really just that: a "backup pump".
My
> original continues to do the real work. That said, I can also
appreciate
> how one might want to install a second modern pump as one's MAIN
pump, with
> the original still there as the backup (you DO want SOME backup
pump,
> right?). In that case, I suppose that on/off cycling might be an
annoyance
> issue. What one could do in that case would be to install one's new
> float-operated pump and run its float switch through some kind of
timer
> circuit. The same folks who can supply you with the bilge blower
fan
> timer's vacuum tubes, the Amperite Company (see
http://www.amperite.com/ ),
> can also supply you with various other timing switch equipment for a
variety
> of applications. Whatever the specific timing equipment chosen, it
should
> probably enable the pump to operate not only some period of time
after the
> float switch opens, but also after it closes too, or you might find
yourself
> with the same on/off cycling...just with more water in the bilge.
Or, you
> could perhaps choose a timer that only continues timing towards
startup if
> the float circuit remains open.
>
> The only real problem I see with any such timer system is that it
needlessly
> complicates matters, saddling you with more delicate stuff to
possibly go
> wrong. Whatever timer system might be installed should certainly
have a
> manual bypass feature.
>
> ~Bilgemaster~

Hello,
It's true, my concerns about on/off switching are more theoretical
than actual. I've seen stories about the float switch type pumps
having sticking floats and would suspect the "sloshing" issue would
be a more common problem in a faster boat. That's why I thought
someone would have come up with a more sophisticated switch then a
mechanical float. I am a general believer in modern electronics to
solve these issues. The kind of timer circuit used in the bilge
blower circuit is hopelessly antiquanted and trouble prone by today's
standards and I figured someone might have a little timer chip
encapsulated in epoxy that would do the whole deal.

John Friese
 
J

John Friese

Guest
--- In amphicar-lovers@y..., Mike Israel <amphicar770@y...> wrote:
> John,
>
> WIth the exception of the RuleMate line all of the
> RULE automatic bilge pumps work by running briefly
> every few minutes at reduced power. They are computer
> controlled so that if the impeller senses resistance
> (i.e. water) it kicks in the pump. Otherwise it goes
> dormant for the next few minutes. Power drain is
> minimal (I left mine on for weeks once with no
> significant battery drain). More costly than a float
> switch but it sounds like what you are looking for.
> Check out boatersworld.com or any other marine supply
> shop. They will all carry Rule pumps.
>
> Mike Israel
> 65 Amphi (white)
> Amphi List/Digest Admin


Hi Mike,
I saw those Rule pumps the other day and thought their sensing system
was a bit weird. I would think they would make a bit of noise
(disturbing one's quiet lunch on the water) when they did their
sensing thing. Also that system would draw more current than a
pure electronic sensing circuit. Perhaps they found that electronic
probes get fouled by the oil and stuff in the bilge.

Thanks,
John Friese
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
> Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!
Messenger
> http://im.yahoo.com
 
M

Mike Israel

Guest
Re: Re: Does This Kind of Bilge Pump Exist

John,

I have a Rule 500 GPH. EXtremely quiet, minimal power
draw. My bilge is pretty cruddy and have not had a
problem. I would think a mechanical switch is more
likely to get something stuck in it or a contact
coated with crud.

MAI
--- John Friese <jfriese@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
> I saw those Rule pumps the other day and thought
> their sensing system
> was a bit weird. I would think they would make a
> bit of noise
> (disturbing one's quiet lunch on the water) when
> they did their
> sensing thing. Also that system would draw more
> current than a
> pure electronic sensing circuit. Perhaps they found
> that electronic
> probes get fouled by the oil and stuff in the bilge.
>
> Thanks,
> John Friese


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