Car build in Luebeck or Berlin? Your VIN will tell you.

[strandweiss62]

Here is the compressed information from a document i found recently. I am not sure with the year the cars were build, but it seems to be somewhat logically. Remember the year of production in your VIN plate is truely the year the car was sold first.

Lübeck
Year? VIN (last four numbers)
1960 0031-0385
1961 0801-1343
1962 2201-2500
1963 3001-3461 only odd numbers

Berlin
Year? VIN (last four numbers)
1960 0401-0570
1961 1501-2030
1962 2601-2800
1963 3002-3460 only even numbers, 3462-4501 all numbers

Peter

 

[Craig Parada]

Dealing with Amphicar serial numbers gives us a window into the lives of archeologists and paleontologists. Upon presenting new data, one is subject to peer review. You've presented an interesting theory, but it raises some questions.

1. My VIN says it was assembled in West Berlin, but the document you found says it was put together in Lübeck. Maybe the years stated were "shipped" or "delivered" or even "sold". Faking the place of manufacture seems irrational and very unlikely.
2. The accounting also skips 895 numbers and leaves out the peculiar "long serial numbers".
3. You didn't state what this document was that you found. It seems to contradict most of what I've seen.

So, I'm skeptical of your theory.

Unhelpfully, Amphicar used a Just-in-Case delivery system rather than Just-in-Time. On my 1964, almost all of the pieces are stamped 1961 or 1962, so tracing back through component suppliers could be helpful, but may just add confusion. Old Bundesrepublic paperwork might be accessible, subject to similar cautions. It is possible that all of the IWK paperwork was lost at the conclusion of this enterprise, but I remain hopeful that more exist.

 

[strandweiss62]

Craig, the document was part of some period letters from an engeneer of IWK, found in a spare parts manual. Interesting enough DWM used 3 different numbers, car#, body# and chassis# (VIN). Only the last 4 numbers matter, the original VIN had 6 digits, the first two are always 10XXXX, the later 9 digit VIN begins 10652XXXX. We know there are some non standard VINs, but all i know match in the scheme of the last 4 numbers.

 

[strandweiss62]

Faking the place of manufacturing could save taxes in those days. All business was subsidized in Berlin.

 

[Craig Parada]

An unsigned, undated page would not last long in any court or professional journal. But, let's assume for a moment that this document is what you propose, and its purpose was to "adjust" totals, as you say, to support fraud. That means it does not represent the actual "production," and so it would not validate assembly location. Just sayin'

Craig in Alviso

 

[strandweiss62]

The amphicar forum is no court, its basis is discussion with friends, that is why i presented this document here and do not sell it on eBay. I can really understand you are sceptically, i am too. The appearance of the letter is typically for internally communication in German enterprises in the sixties. You are welcome for proof and criticism.
Peter near Lübeck

 

[Midwest Amphicar]

Cool stuff.
What year is this and where?
100 077, 101 597

 

[strandweiss62]

Seems to be,
100 077 - 1960 - Lübeck
101 597 - 1961 - Berlin

 

[Midwest Amphicar]

This was a trick. Same car. Both factory stamps on firewall. At least the second car I have had like this. Dave

 

[strandweiss62]

That is pretty cool a car with two VINs. Hope i get more information like this. According to German law this is falsification of documents. If these two stamps are made in the DWM factory, we have the proof, they did not work legally correctly, they cheated.
Peter

 

[Akamphi]

May car is registered as a 66. VIN 103702 in the fire wall. The frame and both hoods have different vin numbers but I'm fairly sure the car was originally produced as is. I blasted it to bare metal and although it was a repaint and had rear quarter work the interior had never been repainted and there was no evidence of any repair work. My VIN tag and firewall both say 103702. Where as the boot lid, deck lid and frame stamps in engine and boot all show slightly different numbers from 103702. I don't have the numbers off the top of my head right now but posted them here awhile back. Seems like the hoods were each just a digit or two off of each other. Not sure on the frame stampings compared the the firewall and vin tag. Again there is absolutely no evidence to support the hoods having ever been replaced on the car. I removed them awhile back but there was original untouched coating on the bolts and it appeared they had never come off.

You say DWM used three different numbers... Perhaps my car supports that?

 

[Craig Parada]

I like this, since it supports my theory that they bought a huge number of parts for a volume discount from Triumph. My early car has all matching body and panel numbers (100173), but maybe late in series production it became less manageable and more mix and match.

Almost all of the dated parts on my vehicle are stamped 1961, but the assembly date was 1964. Things may not have gone together sequentially, and certainly not efficiently, but my car could not have been built in 1960 with 1961 engine, transmission, wheels and gauges. That still leaves lots of room for variables and strange combinations! Maybe they were getting bored and wanted to mess with us...

Craig in Alviso

 

[SNOWBIRD]

My theroy is that all Amphicars were built in 61/ or 2 in both plants, They planned to build 20,000
a year, and when sales did not come, they, just restamped the stock till all sold.There are even some 68 stamped in Ontario Canada..I have no proff of this and a lady I met in Fl, who,s father worked in the plant say no, I,m sticking with it.
Yes I have seen different numbers on hoods and trunks and even different numbers on front bumper arm than whats stamped on body on firewall.
I have restoed over 25 Amphicars and all were taken down to bare metal and have seen many different things on them.
I am in the prosess of setting up a small winter shop on property I am buying in Leesburg Fl.
large lot and a POOL!

 

[Steve]

From the top of this thread: "Remember the year of production in your VIN plate is truely the year the car was sold first."
If this is the plate at the top of the firewall in then engine bay, I was under the impression this date was the date of manufacture. My plate is stamped 1962 but the ownership says it's a 1964. Is the ownership completely wrong?

 

[strandweiss62]

Steve, if you look close to your VIN plate, were the same stamps for the year of production used as for the rest of the data? On some VIN plates no year of production is stamped in, and on some you can see it was stamped in while the plate was mounted at the firewall.