Brake Grease

tazman

New Member
This was a prior discussion. Putting brake grease in the ends of wheels
cylinders. Anyone actually try this and does it work well in preventing
the pistons from seizing in the bores?? I have sleeved cylinders and
they feel like some pistons are sticking. Any comments? Was the product
recommended a red brake grease of some type if I recall? Thanks Bad
Luck Chuck Chuck
 

DavidC

Amphicar Expert
Exhaust Question

Yes, you need red rubber brake grease (google will find) and you peel
back the dust cap and fill the area between the piston and the cap.



Been doing that in my Amphicar for more than 20 years, still have original
cylinders and pistons, I change the rubbers cup seals every 7 years or so -
they are the parts that wear. Silicone brake fluid as well, makes system
more reliable and safer.



Conventional brake fluid absorbs water, it doesn't last long in Amphicar,
brake fluid should never be more than 1% water, in Amphicar after a few
months it can be up to 5%, it causes corrosion and more importantly can
cause loss of brakes due to vapour lock. Silicone fluid repels water and so
removes this problem



David C





From: tazman [mailto:]
Sent: 28 June 2010 18:11
To: david@manbus.com
Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20798] Exhaust Question



This was a prior discussion. Putting brake grease in the ends of wheels
cylinders. Anyone actually try this and does it work well in preventing
the pistons from seizing in the bores?? I have sleeved cylinders and
they feel like some pistons are sticking. Any comments? Was the product
recommended a red brake grease of some type if I recall? Thanks Bad
Luck Chuck Chuck
 

Ken Chambers

Platinum Subscriber
Our friend David C. across the pond has recommended Red Brake Grease for that exact application but I found it rather difficult to obtain over here and fairly expensive in the small 5g (0.17oz) packets. (Lucas Rubber Grease Red p/n 64947011). I used a readily available Permatex product instead, Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube, that seemed equivalent but would not recommend it. I wish now I had used the Lucas on one side and the Permatex on the other for a side by side comparison).

http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/lubricants/specialty_lubricants/auto_Permatex_Ultra_Disc_Brake_Caliper_Lube_1.htm

After a year and a few swims, the Permatex grease is all dried out and the brake cylinder rubber end caps are swelled so much that they unseated from the cylinders. The directions on the bottle says to "apply to pins, slides, bushings, pistons and rubber sleeves and seals". On the website I noticed no such recommendation to use the product on rubber components. More discussion?

Ken Chambers, CA
'64 Red


On Jun 28, 2010, at 10:10 AM, tazman wrote:


> This was a prior discussion. Putting brake grease in the ends of wheels
> cylinders. Anyone actually try this and does it work well in preventing
> the pistons from seizing in the bores?? I have sleeved cylinders and
> they feel like some pistons are sticking. Any comments? Was the product
> recommended a red brake grease of some type if I recall? Thanks Bad
> Luck Chuck Chuck
 

Tedredamphi

Platinum Subscriber
Re: Exhaust Question

Ken,
The Permatex swelled my brake cylinder rubber boots also. I wonder what it does to modern day disc brake piston boots? I sure don't want to find out! And here I thought this was a muffler thread.
Ted
 

DavidC

Amphicar Expert
Exhaust Question

Ken, that was the wrong stuff ! The Green is for metal brake parts only, as
you found it'll kill the rubber bits. You only use the green stuff where
the shoes contact the back plate.



You need the Red stuff for rubber. There are other makes apart from Lucas
and Girling but the Green/ Red convention is always used.



I'm sure Ebay have it... here you go, this is what you need !



http://tinyurl.com/27rfl9r



Or ebay item number 400085380144



100g will be plenty, would do at least 4 cars.



David C





From: Ken Chambers [mailto:]
Sent: 28 June 2010 19:34
To: david@manbus.com
Subject: SPAM-LOW: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20798] Exhaust
Question



Our friend David C. across the pond has recommended Red Brake Grease for
that exact application but I found it rather difficult to obtain over here
and fairly expensive in the small 5g (0.17oz) packets. (Lucas Rubber Grease
Red p/n 64947011). I used a readily available Permatex product instead,
Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube, that seemed equivalent but would not
recommend it. I wish now I had used the Lucas on one side and the Permatex
on the other for a side by side comparison).

http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...per_Lube_1.htm
<http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/lubricants/specialty_lubricants
/auto_Permatex_Ultra_Disc_Brake_Caliper_Lube_1.htm>

After a year and a few swims, the Permatex grease is all dried out and the
brake cylinder rubber end caps are swelled so much that they unseated from
the cylinders. The directions on the bottle says to "apply to pins, slides,
bushings, pistons and rubber sleeves and seals". On the website I noticed no
such recommendation to use the product on rubber components. More
discussion?

Ken Chambers, CA
'64 Red


On Jun 28, 2010, at 10:10 AM, tazman wrote:



Quote:



> This was a prior discussion. Putting brake grease in the ends of wheels
> cylinders. Anyone actually try this and does it work well in preventing
> the pistons from seizing in the bores?? I have sleeved cylinders and
> they feel like some pistons are sticking. Any comments? Was the product
> recommended a red brake grease of some type if I recall? Thanks Bad
> Luck Chuck Chuck
 

Ken Chambers

Platinum Subscriber
Exhaust Question

Ya, I guess Permatex Corp. discovered that too. Wonder if they removed the recommendation from their product about its use on rubber parts?

Thanks for the info, David. Why is it that the "red stuff" only seems to be available in the UK? Anyone know of a source in the states?

---Ken Chambers


On Jun 28, 2010, at 3:31 PM, DavidC wrote:


> Ken, that was the wrong stuff ! The Green is for metal brake parts only, as
> you found it'll kill the rubber bits. You only use the green stuff where
> the shoes contact the back plate.
>
>
>
> You need the Red stuff for rubber. There are other makes apart from Lucas
> and Girling but the Green/ Red convention is always used.
>
>
>
> I'm sure Ebay have it... here you go, this is what you need !
>
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/27rfl9r
>
>
>
> Or ebay item number 400085380144
>
>
>
> 100g will be plenty, would do at least 4 cars.
>
>
>
> David C
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Ken Chambers [mailto:]
> Sent: 28 June 2010 19:34
> To: david@manbus.com
> Subject: SPAM-LOW: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20798] Exhaust
> Question
>
>
>
> Our friend David C. across the pond has recommended Red Brake Grease for
> that exact application but I found it rather difficult to obtain over here
> and fairly expensive in the small 5g (0.17oz) packets. (Lucas Rubber Grease
> Red p/n 64947011). I used a readily available Permatex product instead,
> Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube, that seemed equivalent but would not
> recommend it. I wish now I had used the Lucas on one side and the Permatex
> on the other for a side by side comparison).
>
> http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...per_Lube_1.htm
> <http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...lty_lubricants
> /auto_Permatex_Ultra_Disc_Brake_Caliper_Lube_1.htm>
>
> After a year and a few swims, the Permatex grease is all dried out and the
> brake cylinder rubber end caps are swelled so much that they unseated from
> the cylinders. The directions on the bottle says to "apply to pins, slides,
> bushings, pistons and rubber sleeves and seals". On the website I noticed no
> such recommendation to use the product on rubber components. More
> discussion?
>
> Ken Chambers, CA
> '64 Red
>
>
> On Jun 28, 2010, at 10:10 AM, tazman wrote:
>
>
>
> Quote:
>
>
>
> Quote:
> > This was a prior discussion. Putting brake grease in the ends of wheels
> > cylinders. Anyone actually try this and does it work well in preventing
> > the pistons from seizing in the bores?? I have sleeved cylinders and
> > they feel like some pistons are sticking. Any comments? Was the product
> > recommended a red brake grease of some type if I recall? Thanks Bad
> > Luck Chuck Chuck
 

goobcarla

Member
Exhaust Question / Grease for brake parts

Good Morning - NAPA sells Lucas "Red-n-Tacky" #2, which contains an anti-seize ingredient. I use it in all the boats, which get serviced only once a year, and it seems to do the job! They do advertise it as the perfect marine grease, and it has also been used in most of the cars here in the collection.


Gary, red '64



---- Ken Chambers <> wrote:
 

DavidC

Amphicar Expert
Exhaust Question / Grease for brake parts

No, that's not it. That "Red and Tacky" is a Lithium based grease that'll
destroy rubber. It looks like that "Lucas" brand is not the electrical Lucas
we all know that make the proper rubber grease.



Guys, buy the proper tried and tested stuff from the bloke on Ebay UK:



http://bit.ly/b6oTel



He ships overseas.



Much as we think we are in a global market with most things made in China
there are still country specific products, Brits we know who live in the
States are always asking us to bring stuff over or they buy it on the
Internet and have it shipped. Yes it's mostly food but lots of tools, home
wear and car stuff that we grew up with here that is just not available in
the US. Waxoyl rustproofing, white spirit cleaning fluid are two examples.



Things we can't get here that I ship the other way are root beer and Amsoil
transmission fluid. I used to buy Sears and Craftsman tools as well but
quality of those has taken a nosedive in recent years so I look for
secondhand ones on US Ebay or for new buy the German brands in Germany.



David C
 

Ken Chambers

Platinum Subscriber
Re: Exhaust Question

Just placed the order. Funny, it doesn't seem to be available here in the US.

Ken Chambers


On Jun 29, 2010, at 6:35 AM, Jacques Bensadon wrote:


> Guys,
>
> I found this red grease on ebay UK, 100gr costs 6 us dollars + shipping.
>
> Castrol Red Rubber Grease Brake Caliper Rebuilds 100 g - eBay (item 400091723528 end time Jul-12-10 00:30:26 PDT)
 

azpaul50

Member
Re: Exhaust Question

Just a general comment but there's been a lot of similar discussion about brakes in the Nash Metropolitan community. I believe the brakes are Gerling. I didn't see anything about grease in Met discussion but have seen tons of discussion about fluid. The concensus seems to be that anything but Castrol GT-LMA assaults anything rubber like flex hoses. What brought the thought to mind is the organic reference to what now seems to be the consensus Amphi caliper grease, also a Castrol product. Their GT-LMA is available here so I would suspect their other products are as well. Thanks for the great discussion. - azpaul50



To: azpaul50@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20798] Re: Exhaust Question
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:34:02 -0400
From:




Just placed the order. Funny, it doesn't seem to be available here in the US.

Ken Chambers


On Jun 29, 2010, at 6:35 AM, Jacques Bensadon wrote:




Quote:




> Guys,
>
> I found this red grease on ebay UK, 100gr costs 6 us dollars + shipping.
>
> Castrol Red Rubber Grease Brake Caliper Rebuilds 100 g - eBay (item 400091723528 end time Jul-12-10 00:30:26 PDT)

_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
 

bkahler

Member
Re: Exhaust Question

Paul,

You bring up an interesting question, that of brake fluid. I know you
didn't suggest this but I don't think the Amphicars are Girling which
required the use of Castrol GT-LMA fluid due to the rubber products used.
I'm guessing the Amphicar originally had some sort of german brake system
on it, so does that mean a Dot 3 or Dot 4 would be appropriate?

To be honest I use Castrol GT-LMA in all of my daily driver type vehicles
regardless of manufacturer and use silicone fluid in our collector cars.

The wifes race car get Castrol GT-LMA exclusively.

Sadly I have not been able to locate Castol GT-LMA locally for many years
now. I always have to order it from our British parts suppliers.

Brad




On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 1:05 PM, azpaul50 <>wrote:


> Just a general comment but there's been a lot of similar discussion about
> brakes in the Nash Metropolitan community. I believe the brakes are Gerling.
> I didn't see anything about grease in Met discussion but have seen tons of
> discussion about fluid. The concensus seems to be that anything but Castrol
> GT-LMA assaults anything rubber like flex hoses. What brought the thought to
> mind is the organic reference to what now seems to be the consensus Amphi
> caliper grease, also a Castrol product. Their GT-LMA is available here so I
> would suspect their other products are as well. Thanks for the great
> discussion. - azpaul50
>
>
>
> To: azpaul50@hotmail.com
> Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20798] Re: Exhaust Question
> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:34:02 -0400
> From:
>
>
>
>
> Just placed the order. Funny, it doesn't seem to be available here in the
> US.
>
> Ken Chambers
>
>
> On Jun 29, 2010, at 6:35 AM, Jacques Bensadon wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Quote:
>
>
>
>
> Quote:
> > Guys,
> >
> > I found this red grease on ebay UK, 100gr costs 6 us dollars + shipping.
> >
> > Castrol Red Rubber Grease Brake Caliper Rebuilds 100 g - eBay (item
> 400091723528 end time Jul-12-10 00:30:26 PDT)
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/...M_HMP:042010_3<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3>
>
>
>
 

azpaul50

Member
Re: Exhaust Question

Brad - I got mine at Pep Boys although I haven't needed any for quite a while. I remember none of the other suppliers had it. - Paul



To: azpaul50@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20798] Re: Exhaust Question
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:49:44 -0400
From:




Paul,

You bring up an interesting question, that of brake fluid. I know you
didn't suggest this but I don't think the Amphicars are Girling which
required the use of Castrol GT-LMA fluid due to the rubber products used.
I'm guessing the Amphicar originally had some sort of german brake system
on it, so does that mean a Dot 3 or Dot 4 would be appropriate?

To be honest I use Castrol GT-LMA in all of my daily driver type vehicles
regardless of manufacturer and use silicone fluid in our collector cars.

The wifes race car get Castrol GT-LMA exclusively.

Sadly I have not been able to locate Castol GT-LMA locally for many years
now. I always have to order it from our British parts suppliers.

Brad




On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 1:05 PM, azpaul50 <>wrote:




Quote:




> Just a general comment but there's been a lot of similar discussion about
> brakes in the Nash Metropolitan community. I believe the brakes are Gerling.
> I didn't see anything about grease in Met discussion but have seen tons of
> discussion about fluid. The concensus seems to be that anything but Castrol
> GT-LMA assaults anything rubber like flex hoses. What brought the thought to
> mind is the organic reference to what now seems to be the consensus Amphi
> caliper grease, also a Castrol product. Their GT-LMA is available here so I
> would suspect their other products are as well. Thanks for the great
> discussion. - azpaul50
>
>
>
> To: azpaul50@hotmail.com
> Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20798] Re: Exhaust Question
> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:34:02 -0400
> From:
>
>
>
>
> Just placed the order. Funny, it doesn't seem to be available here in the
> US.
>
> Ken Chambers
>
>
> On Jun 29, 2010, at 6:35 AM, Jacques Bensadon wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Quote:
>
>
>
>
> Quote:
> > Guys,
> >
> > I found this red grease on ebay UK, 100gr costs 6 us dollars + shipping.
> >
> > Castrol Red Rubber Grease Brake Caliper Rebuilds 100 g - eBay (item
> 400091723528 end time Jul-12-10 00:30:26 PDT)
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/..._HMP:042010_3>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
 

bkahler

Member
Re: Exhaust Question

Wouldn't you know it, Pep Boys is one of the few suppliers we don't have in
this area of Kentucky.

Oh well....:)

Brad

On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 2:45 PM, azpaul50 <>wrote:


> Brad - I got mine at Pep Boys although I haven't needed any for quite a
> while. I remember none of the other suppliers had it. - Paul
>
>
>
>
> To: azpaul50@hotmail.com
> Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20798] Re: Exhaust Question
> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:49:44 -0400
> From:
>
>
>
>
> Paul,
>
> You bring up an interesting question, that of brake fluid. I know you
> didn't suggest this but I don't think the Amphicars are Girling which
> required the use of Castrol GT-LMA fluid due to the rubber products used.
> I'm guessing the Amphicar originally had some sort of german brake system
> on it, so does that mean a Dot 3 or Dot 4 would be appropriate?
>
> To be honest I use Castrol GT-LMA in all of my daily driver type vehicles
> regardless of manufacturer and use silicone fluid in our collector cars.
>
> The wifes race car get Castrol GT-LMA exclusively.
>
> Sadly I have not been able to locate Castol GT-LMA locally for many years
> now. I always have to order it from our British parts suppliers.
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 1:05 PM, azpaul50 <>wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Quote:
>
>
>
>
> Quote:
> > Just a general comment but there's been a lot of similar discussion
> about
> > brakes in the Nash Metropolitan community. I believe the brakes are
> Gerling.
> > I didn't see anything about grease in Met discussion but have seen tons
> of
> > discussion about fluid. The concensus seems to be that anything but
> Castrol
> > GT-LMA assaults anything rubber like flex hoses. What brought the thought
> to
> > mind is the organic reference to what now seems to be the consensus Amphi
> > caliper grease, also a Castrol product. Their GT-LMA is available here so
> I
> > would suspect their other products are as well. Thanks for the great
> > discussion. - azpaul50
> >
> >
> >
> > To: azpaul50@hotmail.com
> > Subject: RE: [General Amphicar Discussion-t-20798] Re: Exhaust Question
> > Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:34:02 -0400
> > From:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Just placed the order. Funny, it doesn't seem to be available here in the
> > US.
> >
> > Ken Chambers
> >
> >
> > On Jun 29, 2010, at 6:35 AM, Jacques Bensadon wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Quote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Quote:
> > > Guys,
> > >
> > > I found this red grease on ebay UK, 100gr costs 6 us dollars +
> shipping.
> > >
> > > Castrol Red Rubber Grease Brake Caliper Rebuilds 100 g - eBay (item
> > 400091723528 end time Jul-12-10 00:30:26 PDT)
> >
> > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
> inbox.
> > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/..._HMP:042010_3><http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/..._HMP:042010_3%3E>
> >
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/...M_HMP:042010_3<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3>
>
>
>
 

jfriese

Active Member
For what it's worth, I brass sleeved wheel cylinders in both my Amphicars and had lots of trouble with the pistons corroding and binding up in the cylinders. Even the red grease was only mildly successful for me. Two years ago I had stainless steel brake pistons made by a local machine shop that are perfect copies of the originals. I then installed them with Gordon's rubber seals, David's red grease and dust caps that fit really tight on the smaller front cylinders. I found those dust caps at White Post. I then filled the system with silicon brake fluid and have had no trouble at all with the brakes since then. I was thinking of having the stainless pistons reproduced in quantities for sale but I always test the products that I sell for quite awhile before moving ahead and consider this system still in testing. It seems that those ATE pistons have not always been made of the same stuff. Mine were made of some cheap pot metal but others I've seen look more like finished aluminum. All my brakes are working fine now and the system doesn't leak at all.

John Friese
67 White
67 Red
 

cigarman

Amphicar Expert
But John,
Don't you just do highway driving at 80-90 mph + I didn't think you go in the water. You also told me you like to climb mountains in your area. I bet you use the UK red grease to help slide down the mountains---LOL
Are you coming to Celina this year? Hope so!

Cigarman
 

Jon March

Member
A follow-up. Please clarify: I have the correct Girling red rubber grease. Am i supposed to use it to grease the sides of the round brake cylinders before inserting them? That would seem to really sticky-up the motion of the cylinders in the sleeve. Or do you only pack the inside of the rubber boot ?- but wouldnt that still eventually get onto the cylinder walls where brake fluid is present? Some clearer explanation and cross contamination advice appreciated....

Also - the front rubber caps are a quandry for me - here are the measurements of the ones on my car vs ones that John F had from a vendor, and the ones Gordons sells. (There was also talk of someone who posted awhile back that a Wagner kit was a fit)
The rubber boots on the cylinders that were on my car have a "rounded"-lip,
....and the other two i mention have more of a square shaped lip.

Help me understand what the challenges are in this step and and caveats please?

On my car- unsure if they are 1967 originals
ID: 10.7 mm
OD: 26.4mm
Rim: 10.4 mm
Overall: 16mm
rounded grab-lip

Friese -old White Post stock -ABI 6779
ID: 10.1 mm
OD: 25.7 mm
Rim: 9.4 mm
Overall: 16.5mm
squared grab-lip

Gordons 3/2018
ID: 12.7 mm
OD: 25.9 mm
Rim: 10.5 mm
Overall: 13.8 mm
squared grab-lip

Amphi front rubber brake boots.jpg


here is the red rubber grease i got
youll notice i carefully filled the recessed groove that hols the rubber boot with blue Permatex/Nylomar to help seal and hold it on
...this was taken before i filled the boots with red rubber grease and closed them up.....but i do believe that i used the red grease insude the cylinder walls also - and now they feel awfully "sticky"...so im thinking i misunderstood, and not sure waht if anything needs to be used inside the cylinders to keep them moving smoothly....wouldnt the red grease get in there eventially with the cylinderes moving in and out??? confused - but they feel sticky.
Screen shot 2018-03-27 at 11.29.18 PM.png
 
Last edited:
I packed the grease into my cups and squished them back on the cylinder, moved the pistons back and forth and wiped up any that came out. None ever came out onto brake shoes nor caused the whl cylinder to not operate correctly.
 

Ken Chambers

Platinum Subscriber
Just pack the red rubber grease under the cylinder boots and around the pistons in an attempt to keep water out of the piston/cylinder gap. Don't know if a gasket sealant helps.

BTW, Dorman B16932 wheel cylinder boots fit very nicely. Check Amazon.

Dorman B16932.jpg
 
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